Focus on one Path = Unity

Convictions, morals, other societies and religions.
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Heith
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Heith » Wed May 08, 2019 11:15 am

I think that when one keeps in mind that they might do wrong and that processes are not free of problems, this kind of automatically works as a guardian dog to one's progress. It's good to have a little dialogue going on with oneself constantly, asking questions as to why one makes the choices one makes. I try to always ask myself "does this add to suffering?" "is this necessary?" "what will be the benefit of this, is it really beneficial to me or simply something that flirts with or magnifies the parts of my that I rather need to prune?".

About occult paths, I could perhaps say that metaphorically to me it seems a little like hopscotch. So that game that children play where they draw squares on the ground with chalk, number them and jump through them sort of like a maze. Now the style of jumping is completely freestyle. The choice of foot is rather up to the jumper also. Some people feel it has to go tidily and quickly, others play around a bit more or are even quite chaotic about it. But the rule is the same; the squares have to all be jumped, in a certain order to pass the game. Of course with occultism we don't really know what the correct order is, and there are really a awful amount of jumps one has to do; it's a complicated game. So it's a mixture of educated guesses, study, instinct and I'd say, faith. If you jump in the wrong order, you have to start from the beginning. And there are squares that have to be jumped on one foot (so this we could say, LHP or RHP), but there are also those that need your weaker foot, and the last ones are traditionally jumped with both simultaneously.
Cerastes wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:26 pm
It might be a little confused due to the integration of the Finnish forum...It also changed my gender :D
Simply the great god admin has recognized your occult growth and now put you in your next spiritual phase :ugeek:

But jokes aside, there's plenty of little bugs to fix, but overall the forum merge seems to have gone quite well. We were unsure if it was really even doable, but here we are, nothing exploded -yet. I really hope people upload avatars soon though, I'm confused who is who now!
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Smaragd
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Smaragd » Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Cephalius wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:01 pm
Smaragd wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:52 am
I try not to juxtapose the archetypes as paths but keep their balance going in the background with the Celestial Hymns, described in Fosforos, while I focus on some form one or several of them put out. I don't see how merging different and seemingly opposing philosophies in the process would harm the mystical approach so I can choose both. Philosophies, religions and myths gives pieces of the puzzle and I don't have to differentiate them too much. Some of them suit better for some purpose and they merge in to single philosophy under this single path. Maybe this works because my single path is formed on the ground of the Star of Azazel, which can merge different philosophies and sources but still has it's own practices and own core. Thankful for those hard workers who've put forth the knowledge and labour for such a temple to have risen.
For me, it is Magister Noster that reminds me of my actual path. What bothers me about some ritual texts in Fosforso is that they are not completely written in Latin. This bothers me a bit ... Well, I just have to study a bit more Latin to write prayers myself. I do not know why, but Latin works very well for me ...
Just to make clear for all the readers, the balance I meant with the Celestial Hymn practice comes from the rutine of evenly giving attention to all of the seven archetypes in their designated weekdays. Maybe you understood this, but many have missed or overlooked the detail given in that chapter of Fosforos. I think preparing ones own prayers is tremendously good way to form and reform ones understanding of these spirits.

Regarding the Latin parts, I recall a thought from these forums that they are meant to have more of an astral tone so they are pronounced in a dead language that doesn't draw so much everyday or even rational associations. Now this is just an observation from me who don't know you as a person and am myself very much a student and not a teacher, but given you seem to give a lot of attention to aesthetics or feelings of certain type it reminds me of some teachings regarding the astral and its' dangers. I don't think following the astral pulls to a certain extent is a bad thing, but there's a lot of warnings when it comes to following astral "masters". They may give us great hints but as you yourself said, there's some stupid detours we can easily end up taking.
Coming from very one eyed sonical/music background and distrust to anything too "intellectual" I had my hardtime with this theme, but some progress and balance have been reached between the more intellectual approach and the gut feeling and the aesthetical interests leading the way. Actually my aesthetical interest pointed towards more intellectual approach. For me it was and is largely about understanding and finding the united manas & buddhi ie. the intellect beyond and inside rational thinking and the love or deep unity from whence every emotion and thus also astral messages are derived. This pure source is where our Will or 'atma' is sent forth. Aiming to understand this more original source is understanding the lower forms emanating from it and finding balance with the guidance received, whether it was from astral and/or intellectual sources. If I've understood it right, manas might be thought as a bit lower principle while atma and buddhi are of the higher nature. A Luciferian approach might ask for finding manas from the very bosom of buddhi.
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Cerastes
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Cerastes » Wed May 08, 2019 2:01 pm

Heith wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:15 am
Simply the great god admin has recognized your occult growth and now put you in your next spiritual phase :ugeek:

But jokes aside, there's plenty of little bugs to fix, but overall the forum merge seems to have gone quite well. We were unsure if it was really even doable, but here we are, nothing exploded -yet. I really hope people upload avatars soon though, I'm confused who is who now!
I hereby thank the mighty forum gods for leading our forums into oneness and giving me my gender back. 8-)
Unfortunatelly there is no celestrial hymn for this.
(I really think it was a good idea)

Smaragd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 pm
Regarding the Latin parts, I recall a thought from these forums that they are meant to have more of an astral tone so they are pronounced in a dead language that doesn't draw so much everyday or even rational associations.
I tried the celestial hymn in different languages though just to test the psycholinguistic effect. Almost every hymn works best with native language + Latin, except Saturn. For Saturn I picked another language with somehow heavy-weighted associtation for me.
Ancient languages do have a special effect as they are not only (almost) free of everyday associations, they also have an esoteric taste since the meaning of the words remains hidden to almost everyone else.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
obnoxion
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby obnoxion » Wed May 08, 2019 6:56 pm

Heith wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:15 am
...There are squares that have to be jumped on one foot (so this we could say, LHP or RHP), but there are also those that need your weaker foot, and the last ones are traditionally jumped with both simultaneously.
What a wonderful metaphor! I've had the modern schoolyard court hopscotch design chalked on the front yard of my house for a while now - it is the one that looks like a two-beamed cross - but from now on I shall consider it my Heraldic Crest.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Cephalius
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Cephalius » Wed May 08, 2019 7:22 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:01 pm
I tried the celestial hymn in different languages though just to test the psycholinguistic effect. Almost every hymn works best with native language + Latin, except Saturn. For Saturn I picked another language with somehow heavy-weighted associtation for me.
Ancient languages do have a special effect as they are not only (almost) free of everyday associations, they also have an esoteric taste since the meaning of the words remains hidden to almost everyone else.
Exactly! Language is for me the strongest gateway to the spiritual. Different languages have different effects on certain spells. For example, I can not imagine working with pagan gods of slavs in English or Latin.

When we are already talking about hymns, is it really harmful to practice additional chants, which in themselves have a different intension than the hymns of the SoA, for example the Sinister Chants of the o9a?
I do not know if anyone is well versed in this area, but are certain chants really dangerous if used incorrectly, for example, if one interprets the chants differently or by focusing on a task that contradicts the chants' original purpose? I just want to be sure, because the members of the o9a say that you can even die if you use chants wrong ... Maybe a bit over the top, but maybe not ... Can I really only learn it by trying it out? I am a bit nervous...
In morte ultima veritas, vincit veritas in omni re.
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Cerastes
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Cerastes » Wed May 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Cephalius wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:22 pm
When we are already talking about hymns, is it really harmful to practice additional chants, which in themselves have a different intension than the hymns of the SoA, for example the Sinister Chants of the o9a?
I do not know if anyone is well versed in this area, but are certain chants really dangerous if used incorrectly, for example, if one interprets the chants differently or by focusing on a task that contradicts the chants' original purpose? I just want to be sure, because the members of the o9a say that you can even die if you use chants wrong ... Maybe a bit over the top, but maybe not ... Can I really only learn it by trying it out? I am a bit nervous...
Hard to say.
Do you know what the goal of your occult work is or where you want to go with it? I believe the practitioner has to be clear about this.
Personally, I use the celestrial hymns for invocations and for medidative prayers as well as other mantras, chants ect. from other sorces. But please be careful with what you do, because ..yes, it can be dangerous. Fear, or negative thoughts attract harmful forces. I had a few very intense experiences with that an I'm lucky that it did not cause further harm. Meanwhile if I'm insecure whether a practice is harmful or not, I don't do it. Just because I need the right mindset for a fruitful work. If you have in mind that the 9oA webside discribes how someone could die by using their chants wrongly, this might not be a good base to start because this is saved in you subcouncios mind and maybe it comes to the surface during the ritual.

Please notice that, as usual, this are just my own experiences and thoughts, I don't know if this is actually helpful for anyone else.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Cephalius
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Cephalius » Wed May 08, 2019 9:50 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Hard to say.
Do you know what the goal of your occult work is or where you want to go with it? I believe the practitioner has to be clear about this.
Personally, I use the celestrial hymns for invocations and for medidative prayers as well as other mantras, chants ect. from other sorces. But please be careful with what you do, because ..yes, it can be dangerous. Fear, or negative thoughts attract harmful forces. I had a few very intense experiences with that an I'm lucky that it did not cause further harm. Meanwhile if I'm insecure whether a practice is harmful or not, I don't do it. Just because I need the right mindset for a fruitful work. If you have in mind that the 9oA webside discribes how someone could die by using their chants wrongly, this might not be a good base to start because this is saved in you subcouncios mind and maybe it comes to the surface during the ritual.
Ok thanks. I see, I need experience and a concrete plan. Magic is really not something to experiment with too much. Inspiration but never without a rational mind.
In morte ultima veritas, vincit veritas in omni re.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Polyhymnia » Wed May 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Cerastes wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:26 pm
PS: I don't know why the forum thinks the last quote in my comment is from Sor Polyharmonia.
It might be a little confused due to the integration of the Finnish forum...It also changed my gender :D
I just assumed we had morphed into Siamese twins :lol:
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Polyhymnia » Wed May 08, 2019 10:54 pm

Cephalius wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:50 pm
Cerastes wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Hard to say.
Do you know what the goal of your occult work is or where you want to go with it? I believe the practitioner has to be clear about this.
Personally, I use the celestrial hymns for invocations and for medidative prayers as well as other mantras, chants ect. from other sorces. But please be careful with what you do, because ..yes, it can be dangerous. Fear, or negative thoughts attract harmful forces. I had a few very intense experiences with that an I'm lucky that it did not cause further harm. Meanwhile if I'm insecure whether a practice is harmful or not, I don't do it. Just because I need the right mindset for a fruitful work. If you have in mind that the 9oA webside discribes how someone could die by using their chants wrongly, this might not be a good base to start because this is saved in you subcouncios mind and maybe it comes to the surface during the ritual.
Ok thanks. I see, I need experience and a concrete plan. Magic is really not something to experiment with too much. Inspiration but never without a rational mind.
Indeed warning of death sounds pretty grim. Do they make it clear if they mean physical or spiritual death? Because not all death is bad, and I mean that as in the death of things that no longer serve us on a mental and spiritual plane, but physical death due to a chant gone wrong seems a little intense. I think Cerastes is on the right trail with how that death may come to fruition.

I don't think the plan needs to be so much concrete as at least somewhat formed. I found writing my goals out to be very helpful. For me I started out with a spiritual hunger that needed to be satiated, and when I really assessed what I was after, it was learning how to live a more compassionate and kind life, and fostering that type of environment around me while growing spiritually and finding purpose. It continues to evolve the further along my path I go, and I think that alot of people probably share that same experience as they continuously change and hopefully grow.

I love Sor Heith's hopscotch analogy. We all play the game, and sometimes we misstep and have to start again, but the game continues to be playable as long as we put in the effort.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Heith
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Re: Focus on one Path = Unity

Postby Heith » Fri May 10, 2019 3:45 pm

Cephalius wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:22 pm
When we are already talking about hymns, is it really harmful to practice additional chants, which in themselves have a different intension than the hymns of the SoA, for example the Sinister Chants of the o9a?
I do not know if anyone is well versed in this area, but are certain chants really dangerous if used incorrectly, for example, if one interprets the chants differently or by focusing on a task that contradicts the chants' original purpose? I just want to be sure, because the members of the o9a say that you can even die if you use chants wrong ... Maybe a bit over the top, but maybe not ... Can I really only learn it by trying it out? I am a bit nervous...
Right, so, my reply is maybe a bit strict but bear with me :D

I think that with occult work it is not very wise to go about without at least some kind of a plan. I also think that our contemporary time, which is very surface-focused, puts too much value on the visible or outer layers. This is true in the occult world also. Too much value is put on rituals and how things look like, and too little on person's inner growth which in my opinion is largely a journey of ethical and philosophical pondering. But I get why it doesn't interest most people, it can be very unexciting work. I do think that some things we are able to make our mind on without having to try it. For example I certainly can understand that I don't have to kill someone in order to understand that it would be wrong to kill someone.

The reader will bear in mind as they read my text that I detest ONA and other groups of similar nature that idolize violence, torture and/or criminal acts. To me this is nothing but a continuation of the blackmetal & motorcycle mindset; absurdly childish, weak and contrary to what they are quick to say, extremely herd mentality. I've rarely encountered as frail egos as in that kind of circles. There is a lot of unnecessary mystifying in groups like that. It bores me. I do think that there is a level of this deliberate mystifying in these rituals you mentioned, the purpose is to attract people with it because it sounds "cool".

But it is also true that each occult group without a doubt has their own energetic field that will affect the people who step into that field. One has to consider the question as to why one chooses or feels the necessity for the field they choose. One always should be careful in doing any occult work, because ritual formulae, words, gestures, symbols, do have a certain tone of their own. I see this in my role in the fraternity all the time, that my actions and choices will quite directly affect the ones that I'm working with. I have to be very responsible. Mixing rituals can be a bit hazardous because then something starts to work in good or bad and it can be difficult to decide which part it is.

I do find value in some pondering on the anti cosmic view(s), that is to say, in the inevitable ending of everything. But for me the path is having to face the loss of everything that is meaningful in humanity and the world. Mainly to me this means great works of art and the destruction of nature. My path laments and weeps the loss, but does not attempt to accelerate it, seeks no joy in that destruction. And neither do I turn away from it and hide; I watch and observe and attempt to not give space in my heart for hating the mankind that is the root of all of that destruction. It's very difficult because I care too much; but this is typical to my temperament and also my path which is both the rose and the cross.
obnoxion wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:56 pm
Heith wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:15 am
...There are squares that have to be jumped on one foot (so this we could say, LHP or RHP), but there are also those that need your weaker foot, and the last ones are traditionally jumped with both simultaneously.
What a wonderful metaphor! I've had the modern schoolyard court hopscotch design chalked on the front yard of my house for a while now - it is the one that looks like a two-beamed cross - but from now on I shall consider it my Heraldic Crest.
I thought this might be something you would understand, as you often value games and the imagination of childhood games and experiences very highly. Happy jumping!

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