Children and Adults & Esoeterism and Exoterism in The New Testament

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obnoxion
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Children and Adults & Esoeterism and Exoterism in The New Testament

Postby obnoxion » Fri May 13, 2016 10:25 am

In Matthew 19:14 -15 Jesus says his famous words about suffering the children: ”But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and thence departed.” The regular esoterist interpretation is that the wise must become as children, and I think this interpretation is perfectly legit, and is established at length in Mathhew 18.

But might there be another teaching in this too? In Hebrews 5:11 – 14 it is the adult that is set as an example in contrast to a babe. So I have been thinking is the Matthew 19:14 – 15 at one level a legitimization and even empowerment to exoteric structures of the faith? I mean that the rituals and the customs of a faith might be spiritually uplifting and rewarding for such that never became children (esoterists) but instead remained children (exoterists).
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Nefastos
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Re: Children and Adults & Esoeterism and Exoterism in The New Testament

Postby Nefastos » Tue May 17, 2016 8:32 am

obnoxion wrote:But might there be another teaching in this too? In Hebrews 5:11 – 14 it is the adult that is set as an example in contrast to a babe. So I have been thinking is the Matthew 19:14 – 15 at one level a legitimization and even empowerment to exoteric structures of the faith?


Yes, I think that the writer of the letters of Paul oftentimes uses different symbolism than the writers of the gospels. Personally I am not a big fan of Paul's, for I see him talking quite obscurely and in narrow meanings in this context, that later became so incredible powerful and absolute an authority. It really should be taken as a and not the commentary of the gospels. (And, possibly needless to say here, we would certainly need more gospels canonized to veritable Christian status, the gospels of Thomas and Mary at least.)

When it comes to the symbolism of Biblical gospels, I claim that there is a deeply resonating note of exoteric (!) undercurrent in all the teachings. "Jesus was more modern than we actually are yet", said Pekka Ervast. He was making a new kind of thought, where the "heaven" is closer to earth, & thus also, the esoteric order closer to the exoteric one. He really put the things in a different way, which is why the Christian occultists (as well as theologians) talk about the New Covenant and changing the world in the esoteric work of Christ.

And this is just the point where gospels (of the New Covenant) and Paul & other Jewish converts see things differently: Jesus' teaching is at the same time esoteric & exoteric in language, although he uses paraboles, where the Old Covenant (including Paul, who was an occultist before he became a Christian) uses the more obscure & actually often quite different symbolism. In some cases, the New way is the Old way reversed, for example in this regard. I see that when Jesus speaks of children, he speaks, at the same time, about --

a) A certain kind of initiates. (These are not the exact same as the initiates of the Old Covenant. We might speak of the fourth initiation here.)
b) Actual children.
c) People with the abilities of the children, namely, those who are able to be inspired and trust, and thus "in heaven their angels do always behold the face of [God]" (Matthew 18:10).

So, in the heart of Jesus' teachings there is always this utter compassion towards the weaker ones, and thus I would side with you and say that one way to read "children" in the gospels is definitely also to see them as those "young in spirit", i.e. not yet on the esoteric path. When the gospels are read as whole (but without their later commentaries, like that of Paul's letters or the later theologians), I claim that there is very seldom a need to create a closed esoteric structure, but Jesus' aim is always in the "working towards exotericism".

Yet, this is not blind. For it was said:

Matthew: 14-15 wrote:But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.


That is, Jesus blesses the children (helps these children - in all meanings of that word - with his energy, so to say) but then he departs. This is the esoteric side of Jesus' "pro-exotericism". It is not about physical work, like some have thought, but spiritual. The esoteric school of Jesus is not about doing the younger ones' work for them, nor to giving teaching to those who cannot yet digest it. It is accepting them to try, and to help them in blessing. Some later Christians, for example count Tolstoy, failed to grasp the esotericism of Jesus, although they made the great discovery of finding this pro-exotericism (love in practice) of his.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
obnoxion
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Re: Children and Adults & Esoeterism and Exoterism in The New Testament

Postby obnoxion » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:08 pm

Thank you for your most satisfying answer! There were so many things to focus on, that I will only pick one. But before that, I must say that I too find Paul to be the most problematic writer in the Bible.

Ervast' point that Jesus was more modern than we are yet, brought to mind our Finnish forum disussion about the changing rules of occultism. You presented some Gospel quotes where Jesus relates principles for a new covenant. Now, two millenniums later, it seems these principles are still too modern yet. From a certain angle, it looks as if the new era would bring us a double challenge - one lingering from the past, and another one dawning in the horizon.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.

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