Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

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Jiva
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Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Jiva » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:09 pm

As I’ve mentioned, I’ve started doing some research into Kabbalistic beliefs and have inevitably encountered the moral code of the Torah given by the 613 commandments of God and how this was interpreted by various Kabbalists.

Speaking quite generally, there are some Kabbalists who believe that evil was created to test humanity and that the words of the Torah were jumbled up (or were missing a letter) and could be reformulated or manifested in any number of ways. For example, some believe that the strict prohibitions of the Torah (especially the more arbitrary) would be nullified upon the creation of a new world, i.e. a purer reformulation of the Torah following the great test of humanity, into a more Rabelaisian society. This strand of messianic belief eventually resulted in the Sabbatian and Franckist heresies who followed various antinomian precepts in direct and deliberate contravention of Jewish law.

By reading random Wikipedia pages it seems this was also the theme of some modern peripheral Christian groups, especially the Oneida Community in the USA, but also, as I understand it, the Khlysts in Russia. What are people’s opinions of this somewhat paradoxical behaviour where a RHP messiah ushers in an ostensibly lawless age?
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Sebomai
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Sebomai » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:27 pm

I apologize in advance in case what I say here confuses rather than clarifies anything!

I think the main thing is that, while there are some very valid points relating to dividing paths into a Right and a Left Hand Path, the division is dualistic and somewhat arbitrary. There is not really anything that demands one follow certain traditionally RHP codes and thus one cannot possibly live by other LHP methods. It is limiting to perceive anyone, especially a Messianic entity, in such black and white terms.

Also, the goal of much Messianic thinking within Christianity and, if I am understanding correctly, also certain Jews, is that the Messiah ushers in an Age where the Law is just not necessary. It isn't an issue of lawlessness for many, but one of not needing the Law anymore.

For those who do see it as an Age of Lawlessness, there are many among the more extreme Gnostic sets, who simply say that the Messiah of the Bible is not the real Messiah, our Saviors are those who directly oppose the Demiurgic "God."

So many angles to discuss this from, and I can only wrangle those few out of my brain! Thank you, as usual, fra. Jiva, for inspiring such deep thoughts. I can truly say I get something of great value out of all you post here. :)
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Cancer » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Isn't it something like a cenral paradox of the RHP that it represents love / mercy on one hand and law / severity on the other?
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Nefastos » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:49 am

Sebomai wrote:I think the main thing is that, while there are some very valid points relating to dividing paths into a Right and a Left Hand Path, the division is dualistic and somewhat arbitrary.
Cancer wrote:Isn't it something like a cenral paradox of the RHP that it represents love / mercy on one hand and law / severity on the other?


But there are two Covenants in the Right Hand Path: the Old – which is the Jewish (&c.) way of restrictions & sacrifices – and the New one, which is the way of Christ, i.e. Love, or the "buddhic unity".

For two thousand years people have paid lip service to the latter, the doctrine of mercy & love, but actually the whole Piscean Age still honored the old Covenant of the rigid discipline & order of the herd. That is because people were not ready for that kind of individuation that the real love demands. There can be no forgiveness if the one who tries to forgive is not yet a true individual. (This great idea is from Gandhi.) The true messiahs become abominations because they teach in the liminal stage where they must give philosophy both for the masses' and the rare esotericists' benefit. Thus there will be paradox, and often the transgression to the liminal state leads to one or another kind of public persecution. This is because they (the highest adepts) are "neti-neti", no this nor that.

So, the "mass-RHP" is rigid & ceremonial, but the foundation of the individuated RHP is love. Similarly, the "mass-LHP" (sic!) is about chaos of everybody's personal whims, but the foundation of the truly individuated LHP is truth. These two, love and truth, almost necessarily open up to one another, so when the paths come closer at the mountain summit, the RHP will eventually almost equal as the LHP & vice versa.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Jiva
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Jiva » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:32 pm

Yeah, I think this is pretty much how this idea plays out. Speaking generally of course, I think many of these proposed Kabbalistic RHP messiahs intend to reward those who initially follow the divine law by nullifying these divisions in the forthcoming messianic age, while condemning those who didn’t initially follow these laws to Hell (even if only temporarily). In other words, another arbitrary division.

In relation to this, what do you think regarding some of the more modern RHP religions that seem to have consciously amalgamated the messianic figures of other beliefs to attempt to create a more unified religion? Is this indicative of RHP beliefs fulfilling their potential to a greater extent? I was thinking of starting a thread about this, but I think it could easily fit here, considering most of the examples I can think of have evolved from an Abrahamic point of view, such as Ahmadiyya Muslims, the Bahá'í etc.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby Jiva » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:33 am

Messianism has been a subject I’ve been thinking about fairly often, so I thought I’d resurrect this topic and point it in an opposing direction by asking what people think regarding LHP strains of messianism. By this I mean striving for some sort of concluding goal, e.g. anti-cosmic Satanism’s conclusion of a return to the acosmic. Does positioning oneself in direct opposition inherently result in adopting/internalising major characteristics of one’s said opposition, i.e. a messianic conclusion? Does having some sort of Ideal state to aim for inherently count as a RHP characteristic?
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Re: Biblicllal Law, the Messiah and Lawlessness

Postby RaktaZoci » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:46 pm

Jiva wrote:... Sabbatian and Franckist heresies ...
Please note that this sort of "Frankism" is spelled without the C. ;)
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