TOTBL/MLO

Convictions, morals, other societies and religions.
Spinos
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 10:06 pm

Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Spinos » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Jiva wrote:Thanks you for your responses. Firstly, allow me to apologise for some lack of clarity and a mistake. I mentioned Vexior's work and my relation to it to state that I have some understanding of something that shares similar sentiments to your belief (his full name was Vexior 218 after all, while he quotes from Liber Azerate in Gullveigarbok), but is ultimately not identical. And yeah, I meant "acosmic" rather than "anti-cosmic". I've made that annoying mistake on this forum and other places a few times.
No problem!

Yes, indeed it seem to have been, his name I mean, but the “was” part and the fact that his name no longer have 218 after it should be as telling when it comes to his direct relationship with what I follow and practice. But, on a core level he does indeed seek something similar, so similarities can for sure be found, but what's similar isn’t on the inner level always the same.

I follow Tradition. If I start to make up my own tradition then I'll also call it “Current 1234” or something else to show it is not part of something else and my own path. So if this guy does his own thing with similar goals then I wish him the best of luck and success with it, but it is still not the same as what I do, as what defines Tradition is the Traditional Approach and Initiation.

Yes, big difference between Acosmic and Anti-cosmic, many people make that mistake and can actually lead to great misunderstandings, as: “the Primal State beyond and before YHVH and AZeRATe is the Acosmic Void of the Fullness of Emptiness and it is first within the emanations fallen from the Acosmic Ain that the Cosmic and Anti-Cosmic impulses come into being, with their roots in the right and left side of the Ain Sof.”
Jiva wrote:Anyway, I mentioned that I considered how you describe animal sacrifice as similar to the Biblical sacrificial goat as you include part of your ego/life force, presumably transmitted to the animal during your bonding. How you view this, I'm not sure: is the part of your ego/life force similar to the Jewish 'sin offering' of something corrupt to be purified, or a similar transmission of something you consider pure to it's proper home, or something else entirely?
Sorry but you misunderstood what I wrote about sacrifice. The Ego-sacrifice part is just one aspect reflecting the inner process related to what we could call the Inner Alchemy of such rituals, but as I explained already the act of sacrifice is not a mere symbolic one.

Sacrifice is for the giving of life-force and power to the “receiver”, or for the directing of such force and power in order to cause certain manifestation, empowerment or resurrection.

It is not a symbolic act related to one’s own sins or something like that, it is about adding power of a certain kind to something or someone needing it. Like when unnatural addition of power is needed in order to provoke manifestations or when it comes to actually feeding certain spirits that on the level they are asked to work lack their own means for the producing of certain kinds of “energies” needed.

It is all about practical energy manipulation on a certain specific level. 
Jiva wrote:And while I'd agree that some philosophy is undoubtedly “mental masturbation”, to condemn an entire genre of research as such would be like saying all devotional/ceremonial worship is the “aesthetic masturbation” of dancing round altars in capes. It may be true in some cases but certainly isn't the rule. Philosophy could be an anathema to someone; it's not a prerequisite: to each their own. However, philosophy is one of the many genres of human activity that have enjoyed a historic crossover with occultism/esotericism/mysticism/whatever – after all, I would assume the terms “form” and “essence” are derived from Platonic philosophy?"
“…to condemn an entire genre…”???

Did I say that all philosophy was “mental masturbation”?  I would be insane if I had that opinion, as of course what I follow also have a philosophy at its base.

Where the “mental masturbation” things come in is when people focus on mental games and word-play in order to never have to get their hands dirty.

My philosophy tells me to Practice and to see the truth of things based on experience and spiritual intuition and not to limit myself to the worldly impulse that rule most people vocal in these fields.

We work with souls, spirits, gods and via direct experience gained from them we evolve, not based on some dry logic. All the books I have ever read couldn’t give me as much insight as when I for the first time for example experienced the truth of Qayin by experiencing his presence and manifestation in my life in connection to a ritual working.

To “Utesitta” on a place of power, or by a tree possessed by Spirit as dictated by our tradition and to actually commune with that spirit during trance and/or meditation is for example more worth than to have read all the books about plant sorcery and all academic speculations become meaningless when evocation actually gives result and a spirit throws a book down from the shelf opening it to the page where the info you asked for is shown.

In the tradition I follow we value those things over what was called “mental masturbation”, that doesn’t mean philosophy is something bad, it just mean that philosophising can’t become an excuse to not do Spirit-Work and that worldly logic is not to limit ones strive for power and Gnosis.

“We seek the company of Spirits and not those of man” and that is the reason for why you don’t see our people online and engaged in discussions and social fraternisation. 

The only reason why I post here now is because I saw some things that I reacted to and asked my mentor if I could respond and he told me to do as I wanted and so I did, with permission, as I otherwise would never play representative on the Internet.

Soon I will not have much more to add, besides advising people interested in 218/182 to study the books and if still interested start to practice and see what happens and Know if they are of the Current or not.

Best of luck with your own paths.

Hail Azerate!
swordofapostasy
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:44 am

Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby swordofapostasy » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:18 pm

Spinos wrote:
swordofapostasy wrote:Thank you very much for being here Spinos, I am personally very inspired by alot of the Current 218 material and I see some commonalities between what I know of SoA and 218 although obviously some of these commonalities could be only superficial:

Gnostic tendencies such as:

-recognition of the Serpent of Eden as a liberator and teacher

-an embracing of antinomian practices as a valid means of spiritual liberation

Other commonalities might be the theistic approach to Satanism, the rejection of the atheistic charlatanry of Lavey and his like.
Inspiration is very good if it lead to something substantial. If it only leads to copying parts of the esoteric work in order to make “nice websites” or to dilute the teachings with unrelated ideas, like what so many people seem to be doing, well then it is not so great.

I hope you are inspired on an earnest level and that it brings you the kinds of result your dedication to the teachings deserves.

Indeed those commonalities you mention seem to exist and that is a good thing, but that is the surface and what is more important is not the ideas and ideals that we all on an outer level casually can agree about but what we actually do about them. 

How do we work in order to manifest and realise goals that we may have based on those and many other ideas and ideals?  That is what I think is important and the difference between the many existing systems and traditions, as we learn that actions speak louder than words and that “One should Know via direct experiences achieved through Praxis and Spirit-Congress, instead of creating belief-attachments based solely on theoretical speculations”.

I post here as a student of the Current and not as a representative of any temple, so what I give is just my own casual 2 cents worth point of view as there is no official mandate against the Star of Azazel from the 218/182, but based on the experience that I do have I know that it is never good to mix things from different “Living and Warded Traditions”. On the simplest level it shows a lack of respect, not only to the people within the traditions, but also to of the Spirits/ Deities that have specific manifestations inside of those different currents.  

That being said, after looking into things and asking those I trust I find the Star of Azazel system and approach to be 10.000 times better than all the hylic forms of American Satanism or Luciferianism that is out there, so if nothing else a friendly relationship between traditions would not be out of question, from where I stand.
swordofapostasy wrote:I guess my question is to what degree are the myths of the 218 Current such as the Cain and Abel story in Falxifer 2 to be taken literally? I understand that Abel is identified with the clay-born ego within Cain himself and thus the killing represents Cain's embracing of his antinomian roots. But does Current 218 also think these events actually occurred within history?
All myths I have learnt are true on their own level and in their own context. The accepted physical reality is not the only one and while the myths may not tell about mundane history they carry truths hidden within them more real than what the news reports on TV every night try to brainwash people with.

To quote the Magister:  “There is actually very little of that which we ascribe to Qayin that does not have a traditional basis. It is only a question of finding the sources and viewing them from the right perspective and understanding them according to personal and context-specific Gnosis. Most importantly it is a question of Spirit Revelation, for stand assured that our Work is inspired by those with whom we have covenants and that for us “mythical” constructs hold an actual reality unrestricted by that which is perceived as “physical reality”.

Abel is from my understanding something that Qayin killed both outside and inside of himself in order to attain what we understand as Power-Gnosis-Liberation-Ascension.

It was a murderous deed and not only a mental exercise and part of a greater Work leading to “Separation from one side and Unification with and Elevation through the Other”.
swordofapostasy wrote:At the same time I can see a possible parallel between the creation story presented in BoSA and the events of the Big Bang, as sort of the spiritual events that preceded or initiated that material explosion.
We learn that the physical mimic the spiritual and therefore it may very well be so that for example ideas of big bang could be compared to the creation story you mention, but what is important is to know to separate “the Spiritual and Mythic Realities” from the mundane and scientific ones, as I see some confused people trying to prove or disprove the Gnosis of Spirit with their own understanding of causal science, running around all confused like chickens with their head’s cut off.

If one learns to separate the dayside reasoning from that of the magical nightside thinking less confusion will arise, that was the case for me. 

The intuitive knowledge of spirit is on another level and shouldn’t be limited by the mundane logic of the world of matter.

Again to quote the 218-teachings:

“Let the man of clay seek his own limitations within the clay and let the Man of Spirit reach for and seek truth in Spiritual Fire. For those that can not see beyond the World there is Nothing Beyond, but for those that see through the worlds of Creation and Anti-Creation the Nothing Beyond holds All Unbound and Unmanifest Potentia(l), Unrestricted and Eternal in Paradoxical Dynamism of the Zeroth Point of Divinity.”
I seriously don't think you could have answered that any better. Thank you very much.
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Kenazis
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Kenazis » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:07 pm

Spinos, it seems that your tradition heavily empahasises the physical (plane) aspect of the rituals (detailed and correct sigils, herbs, forms...), so my questions are: How important this "outer work"/physical ritual is? Can these rituals be performed just "with the mind", in meditation? In "Black in Green" it's not possible to do rituals just mentally because the black is actually set free? Am I very far or close enough? I don't know are you answering anymore, but thanks for what you give already.
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