TOTBL/MLO

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Seeker666
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TOTBL/MLO

Postby Seeker666 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:39 am

what are your thoughts on this group? do they affect/interest you at all?
"Eritis sicut Deus, Scientes Bonum et Malum"- Mephistopheles
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Insanus
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Insanus » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:37 pm

Just to be clear:
TOTBL = Temple of the Black Light
MLO = Misanthropic Luciferian Order (old name for the same group)

-

Yes, I'm interested but haven't familiarized myself with their teachings too much yet, so I can't really give a good opinion. Could someone describe shortly their main views?
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby swordofapostasy » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:35 pm

MLO is just the old name for Temple of the Black Light, they are extreme anticosmic Gnostic Satanists.
They focus on Qliphotic magical practice and their ultimate goal is cosmic dissolution.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Seeker666 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:37 pm

how does their tradition compare to ours? just as a side by side comparison not better or worse.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Insanus » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:40 pm

swordofapostasy wrote:MLO is just the old name for Temple of the Black Light, they are extreme anticosmic Gnostic Satanists.
They focus on Qliphotic magical practice and their ultimate goal is cosmic dissolution.
Makes me feel like the point is to glorify necrophilous passions & that the religious feeling is more important than the goal of cosmic dissolution itself. Wikipedia mentioned they teach "extreme militant nihilism". What is this extremity and how is it important?
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Fomalhaut » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 pm

There had been relevant answers given related to this subject in other topics. To give an example, I would like to quote from the post of fra Nefastos on "Anti-Cosmic Philosophy in Satanism" topic:
If one believes in karma, i.e. energetical bonds created by mind, there is no point trying to destroy mankind by force. Even if we destroyed the whole planet, the real psychic bonds would be there, even more than ever. The true "heaviest matter" keeping the soul imprisoned is emotional and intellectual, not physical. (This will be explained in the book Argarizim, now available only in Finnish.)

Because of this, that "literal destruction of mankind" we are after is the one that can only be accomplished by ascension, that is, by finding release from earthly existence by understanding it totally, not by ripping oneself or others out of it by force.

This is why Gnosticism has that particular name: Gnostics believed in the dualistic strife (spirit rising against matter) in the cosmos that is fundamentally monistic - a paradox, there. But even Gnostics believed the way to do is by gnosis: the spiritual knowledge. The use of violence - spiritual, astral or physical - to create perfect anticosmic night is doomed to fail, because the occult bondage ("karma") will be left even if the whole planet is destroyed. If there would be no such karma, there would be no reincarnation, and without reincarnation, anti-cosmicist's job would be easy as pie: just to kill oneself & to find annihilation that easily. Sadly that's not how it works.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Jiva » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:23 am

The old TotBL website has been archived in various places. There are a few on Scribd for example. Actually, I should have remembered this for the 'Acausailty' thread as a couple of sections deal with this topic in what I consider a better way than some of their (and linked individuals'/organisations') publications.
Insanus wrote:Makes me feel like the point is to glorify necrophilous passions & that the religious feeling is more important than the goal of cosmic dissolution itself.
I'm not sure what you mean in the first part, but I do agree with you to an extent regarding religious feeling. Most publications of the TotBL and related organisations devote the majority of their space to rituals. I've no problem with rituals and so on, but I'd prefer to have some sort of more developed philosophical position, although one could say that these rituals – which are fairly explicit in their intention – are designed to foster the over-riding philosophy by a total ceremonial immersion.
Fomalhaut wrote:There had been relevant answers given related to this subject in other topics. To give an example, I would like to quote from the post of fra Nefastos on "Anti-Cosmic Philosophy in Satanism" topic.
I was going to refer to Wyrmfang's post in that thread :P. But yeah, as Nefastos mentioned in that quote, I don't subscribe to their basically Gnostic black/white views. However, I do think that the supposed violence of the TotBL is exaggerated somewhat. Sure, there is some which some members/guests may object to, but not a huge amount. The primary example I can think of is animal sacrifice, the instructions of which state that it “must therefore be conducted with the greatest of respect and care for the animal so offered” (The Book of Sitra Achra, p.306). Another is by cutting oneself to use one's blood as part of a ritual, which is stated in the context of only acquiring a few drops.

I'm not especially sure how to view the confrontational, spiritual violence in their rituals. Violence is often used in mythological contexts as a purely symbolic device, perhaps also during rituals.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Seeker666 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:38 am

Jiva wrote:The old TotBL website has been archived in various places. There are a few on Scribd for example. Actually, I should have remembered this for the 'Acausailty' thread as a couple of sections deal with this topic in what I consider a better way than some of their (and linked individuals'/organisations') publications.
Insanus wrote:Makes me feel like the point is to glorify necrophilous passions & that the religious feeling is more important than the goal of cosmic dissolution itself.
I'm not sure what you mean in the first part, but I do agree with you to an extent regarding religious feeling. Most publications of the TotBL and related organisations devote the majority of their space to rituals. I've no problem with rituals and so on, but I'd prefer to have some sort of more developed philosophical position, although one could say that these rituals – which are fairly explicit in their intention – are designed to foster the over-riding philosophy by a total ceremonial immersion.
Fomalhaut wrote:There had been relevant answers given related to this subject in other topics. To give an example, I would like to quote from the post of fra Nefastos on "Anti-Cosmic Philosophy in Satanism" topic.
I was going to refer to Wyrmfang's post in that thread :P. But yeah, as Nefastos mentioned in that quote, I don't subscribe to their basically Gnostic black/white views. However, I do think that the supposed violence of the TotBL is exaggerated somewhat. Sure, there is some which some members/guests may object to, but not a huge amount. The primary example I can think of is animal sacrifice, the instructions of which state that it “must therefore be conducted with the greatest of respect and care for the animal so offered” (The Book of Sitra Achra, p.306). Another is by cutting oneself to use one's blood as part of a ritual, which is stated in the context of only acquiring a few drops.

I'm not especially sure how to view the confrontational, spiritual violence in their rituals. Violence is often used in mythological contexts as a purely symbolic device, perhaps also during rituals.

very interesting! thank you for your reply! I did not know they treated their animals with respect.... in the Liber Azerate they call them "victims" it sounded more like a hollywood thing than an actual spiritual tradition.
but I'm glad they treat the animals with respect and care.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Insanus » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:31 pm

Fomalhaut wrote:There had been relevant answers given related to this subject in other topics. To give an example, I would like to quote from the post of fra Nefastos on "Anti-Cosmic Philosophy in Satanism" topic:
If one believes in karma, i.e. energetical bonds created by mind, there is no point trying to destroy mankind by force. Even if we destroyed the whole planet, the real psychic bonds would be there, even more than ever. The true "heaviest matter" keeping the soul imprisoned is emotional and intellectual, not physical. (This will be explained in the book Argarizim, now available only in Finnish.)

Because of this, that "literal destruction of mankind" we are after is the one that can only be accomplished by ascension, that is, by finding release from earthly existence by understanding it totally, not by ripping oneself or others out of it by force.

This is why Gnosticism has that particular name: Gnostics believed in the dualistic strife (spirit rising against matter) in the cosmos that is fundamentally monistic - a paradox, there. But even Gnostics believed the way to do is by gnosis: the spiritual knowledge. The use of violence - spiritual, astral or physical - to create perfect anticosmic night is doomed to fail, because the occult bondage ("karma") will be left even if the whole planet is destroyed. If there would be no such karma, there would be no reincarnation, and without reincarnation, anti-cosmicist's job would be easy as pie: just to kill oneself & to find annihilation that easily. Sadly that's not how it works.
My point exactly. What I mean by "glorification of necrophilous passion" is that we start to see literal disintegration of life as end in itself & form a bond to the psychological satisfaction offered by the worship of annihilation. That's why even though certain extremity is needed, it's important that the elements of Fire & Spirit don't get mixed, because in that case the basis in "ideal of cosmic dissolution" defeats itself".

If we see life & death only as phases of energy, then I have no problem.
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Re: TOTBL/MLO

Postby Kenazis » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:49 pm

I was very interested on TOBL/MLO few years back and I read their publications still, but what bugs me is that their aim is somewhat opposite than the Star of Azazel. While SoA aims for the uniting the paths etc. ToBL openly promotes violent activities against "others" and sees themselves as "the only ones that are right". To me this seems like an extreme answer to christianity (and other "Right" paths) a la "You follow only White God and you think you are only ones that knows, so we follow only Black Anti-God and no-one knows the truth, but us." ...still I think they got some very good and interesting points and theories.
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