Thelema

Convictions, morals, other societies and religions.
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RPSTOVAL
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:24 am

obnoxion wrote:Shady is a word that tends to come up often when Nema is mentioned, but one tends to disregard much of it, considering how much gossip and quarrel there seems to be going around the public figures of modern occult.
Yeah, fair point. Though I myself am only talking from my personal experience, as....well the only person I've really heard much from about Nema outside of reading her works myself, is Grant (wow, that goes full-circle :lol: )
obnoxion wrote:Kenneth Grant's shadiness is such a sublime affair that it is easier to look past it, especially as it seems that he led a quiet life..............Grant is not unlike Lovecraft in that everyone they mention tend to be swallowed up in their mythology.

Yep, there is a sublimity to the way Grant's style works.
Like in Grant's own "dictated" text Liber Okbish (there is S'lba too though), at first it seems that mentions of Cthulhu, The Book Of The Law (with various quotes included too!), Ma'at, S'lba (again) and so on, all seem shoehorned in....but then when you spend more time with the larger work it's contained in (The Ninth Arch), you kind of realize that it is more allegorical and representative of certain ideas then to be taken as literal/mystical (like Liber Legis for example).
A broader context with Kenneth Grant helps, as I have learned. The Mauve Zone itself is a key I think, as much is his work manifests in the idea of dreams (where your Lynch comparison feels apt).

Even though that he can seem like a raving lunatic with his inclusion of Lovecraft (initially from the weird coincidences/synchronicity, like Tutulu :lol: ), it kind of fits Grants own narrative message very well. It relates back to Austin Spares own message about how "art is one of the most powerful forms of magick" aka, literature too connects with that part of the subconscious.

In some senses it could seem like Grant saw some connections and decided to run with it (and maybe that's what he did?) but reading his books tends to be an overwhelming and mind-blowing experience, regardless of how little it really actually factors into my own believes and practices as a Thelemite (and agnostic skeptic mystic :lol: )
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:47 am

On Grant again, I really like 'Wisdom/Vision Of S'lba' a lot!


Edit: Also, interesting observation, that it starts off very straight-forward (to the point that someone not acquainted with the occult could probably work out what is being conveyed) in the first two chapters then drifts into heavy detail with the third chapter. It's as if, it jumps from philosophy to mythology within just a few lines (in chap. #3). **

I haven't revisited Grants commentary in the following parts of Outer Gateways (as of yet), but it feels very much like this for me.


*(and in contrary, Liber Okbish is really dense and deeply tied to the mythos the whole way through)
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Re: Thelema

Postby obnoxion » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:28 am

I really cannot go into details about Grant, because I gave away my collection of his books years ago, and I've forgot a lot of what I've read from him. I've slso sold everything about/by A. O. Spare and almost everything by Crowley.

Only thing I sometimes regret is selling the AOS stuff. There was a quote from Spare in one the books, and it went something like this:

(Night and Day) One Dream interprets Another

In that sentence is condenced much of art, occultism, depth psychology, religion - and lunacy. And that is, I think, what the mauve zone is about. One eye dreams and the other one is awake. The mauve zone is a kind of cross-eyed distortion, that nevertheless is a revelation of the simultanity of the two states. But it is always a blurry vision, and thus always a monstrous sight. So I think that where Grant goes wrong - or where he goes over the line behind which he cannot be followed - is in his attachment to blurriness. He lingers in a haze. I suppose that is an aesthetic choice of a romantic soul.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:59 am

obnoxion wrote:(Night and Day) One Dream interprets Another

In that sentence is condenced much of art, occultism, depth psychology, religion - and lunacy. And that is, I think, what the mauve zone is about. One eye dreams and the other one is awake. The mauve zone is a kind of cross-eyed distortion, that nevertheless is a revelation of the simultanity of the two states. But it is always a blurry vision, and thus always a monstrous sight. So I think that where Grant goes wrong - or where he goes over the line behind which he cannot be followed - is in his attachment to blurriness. He lingers in a haze. I suppose that is an aesthetic choice of a romantic soul.
You're right on point about that!
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:30 pm

Great lecture from Lon Milo DuQuette, such a great guy and like Robert Anton Wilson, throws in an enormously heartwarming dose of humor :D

(Lecture starts at 12:11)

https://youtu.be/bWNHI9mi270?t=12s
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:44 am

RPSTOVAL wrote:Great lecture from Lon Milo DuQuette, such a great guy and like Robert Anton Wilson, throws in an enormously heartwarming dose of humor :D

(Lecture starts at 12:11)

https://youtu.be/bWNHI9mi270?t=12s
A great guy as far as I can throw him, but his humor only does him so much service, he doesn't have much valuable insight into Thelema - his interpretation of Thelema is rather shallow too.
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:44 am

I prefer the Typhonian Tradition (and Trilogies, aka Grant's books) over Modern Thelema (and modern Liber AL commentary, yuk!) by far now, although I'm no longer a Thelemite anymore....
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Re: Thelema

Postby obnoxion » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:31 pm

RPSTOVAL wrote:I prefer the Typhonian Tradition (and Trilogies, aka Grant's books) over Modern Thelema (and modern Liber AL commentary, yuk!) by far now, although I'm no longer a Thelemite anymore....
I am surprised. It would be interesting to know what brought about this change of heart, but only if it is not a too private matter.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Re: Thelema

Postby RPSTOVAL » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:12 am

obnoxion wrote:
RPSTOVAL wrote:I prefer the Typhonian Tradition (and Trilogies, aka Grant's books) over Modern Thelema (and modern Liber AL commentary, yuk!) by far now, although I'm no longer a Thelemite anymore....
I am surprised. It would be interesting to know what brought about this change of heart, but only if it is not a too private matter.
What change?
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Re: Thelema

Postby obnoxion » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:03 am

RPSTOVAL wrote:
obnoxion wrote:
RPSTOVAL wrote:I prefer the Typhonian Tradition (and Trilogies, aka Grant's books) over Modern Thelema (and modern Liber AL commentary, yuk!) by far now, although I'm no longer a Thelemite anymore....
I am surprised. It would be interesting to know what brought about this change of heart, but only if it is not a too private matter.
What change?
Well, not being a Thelemite anymore (or was this not a recent change...?). And also, if I haven't got you wrong, I thought you prefered the Caliphate interpretation to the Typhonian...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.

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