Sabbatai Zevi and Dönmeh

[Fomalhaut]

I would like to start a topic about Sabbatai Zevi. Because I am originally from Turkey and he was born during Ottoman Empire in Izmir - in the lands of nowadays Turkey, I got some kind of interest to him and started to make some research over him. I had a very little knowledge about Sabbatians in Turkey while I was still living there and there are still Sabbatians living there.


For those who are not familiar with the person in subject can get the information from following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi


I am currently reading two books which are telling about him: Sabbatai Zevi - Testimonies to a Fallen Messiah by David J. Halperin and Sabbatai Sevi - The Mystical Messiah by Gershom Scholem. I am enjoying the Scholem's book more - to be honest. However, at the beginning of the Halperin's book, I found an interesting part which I would like to share with you:

"For all his piety and asceticism, there was something demonic about the young Sabbatai. People in Izmir remembered, after he had become notorious, how in his early twenties he used to quote with reference to himself biblical verse Isaiah 14: 14, "I will ascend ipon the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High." Once, indeed, Sabbatai spoke these words ´with so special an emphasis that he imagined, was indeed convinced, that he was lifted into the air. He therefore dared onceto ask his comrades whether they had not seen him being lifted up from the earth, and when they answered truthfully that they had not, he answered them: 2Your are not worthy of so glorious a sight, for you are not purified as I am"

The comic absurdity of this anecdote, transmitted by the contemporary Dutch Minister Thomas Coenen, must not be allowed to obscure its sinister subtext. In their context in Isaiah, Sabbatai's words are spoken by the 'Morning Star', Lucifer. This archetypal rebel against God proposes to climb to heave, to 'set my throne above the stars of God' to make himself God's equal. So, it would seem Sabbatai intended, at least unconsciously. He thereby forgot . as Coenen gleefully reminds us-what, according to Isaiah, was the shining rebel's ultimate end. "Thou shalt be brought down to Hell, to the uttermost parts of the pit." "


So, from this part what I understand is , Sabbatai Zevi, somehow had Luciferian and also antinomian side. If I am mistaken and if you have more information about him, please correct me.

[Jiva]

At the moment, anything I plan to read about the Kabbalah or Jewish mysticism is focussed on potential links with Hinduism or theorising that doesn't contain the Lurianic messianic longing.

Having said that though, I've pre-ordered the latest Ixaxaar release which is apparently “based on... fundamental concepts derived from the heresy of Sabbatai Zevi”. Part of the reason why I pre-ordered it was because I simply couldn't understand what this would entail. However, thanks to your quote from Halperin's book, I have slightly more insight . Therefore I suppose when this is released I might bump it and Scholem's book up my reading list.

As I've not read either of Halperin's or Scholem's books, do either go into any detail on the Sabbateans' supposed influence on unorthodox Sufi culture as mentioned on the Sabbateans' Wikipedia page?

[Fomalhaut]

Having said that though, I've pre-ordered the latest Ixaxaar release which is apparently “based on... fundamental concepts derived from the heresy of Sabbatai Zevi”. Part of the reason why I pre-ordered it was because I simply couldn't understand what this would entail. However, thanks to your quote from Halperin's book, I have slightly more insight . Therefore I suppose when this is released I might bump it and Scholem's book up my reading list.

Actually, this was one of the other main reason why I started to make some research on him. I have pre-ordered the same book also.

As I've not read either of Halperin's or Scholem's books, do either go into any detail on the Sabbateans' supposed influence on unorthodox Sufi culture as mentioned on the Sabbateans' Wikipedia page?

I have not seen anything related to that but if anything like that comes, I will share it with you here.

[Jiva]

I've done a little more reading about this since, including reading about Jacob Frank – who claimed to be a reincarnation of the divine soul of which Sabbatai Zevi was the first manifestation – and his followers, the Frankists.

Aside from Wikipedia pages, I also stumbled across two fairly lengthy articles written by Gershom Scholem that present a more detailed summary of both Zevi's and Frank's histories and beliefs for anyone interested. According to Scholem there is definitely an embrace of antinomian ideas by both Zevi and Frank, although the latter took this principle further. Frank aimed to follow the path to “true life” for which it was necessary to abolish or destroy the laws, teachings, and practices that constricted its power. This included the Torah and Talmud as, after Frank had declared himself the messiah, these no longer applied.

This may be of no interest to anyone but me, but I'm extremely curious about Baal Shem Tov (the founder of the Hasidic movement) owning texts by Hershel Zoref, an important Sabbatean figure in Poland who was apparently considered a prophet of sorts.

[Fomalhaut]

I've done a little more reading about this since, including reading about Jacob Frank – who claimed to be a reincarnation of the divine soul of which Sabbatai Zevi was the first manifestation – and his followers, the Frankists.

Aside from Wikipedia pages, I also stumbled across two fairly lengthy articles written by Gershom Scholem that present a more detailed summary of both Zevi's and Frank's histories and beliefs for anyone interested. According to Scholem there is definitely an embrace of antinomian ideas by both Zevi and Frank, although the latter took this principle further. Frank aimed to follow the path to “true life” for which it was necessary to abolish or destroy the laws, teachings, and practices that constricted its power. This included the Torah and Talmud as, after Frank had declared himself the messiah, these no longer applied.

This may be of no interest to anyone but me, but I'm extremely curious about Baal Shem Tov (the founder of the Hasidic movement) owning texts by Hershel Zoref, an important Sabbatean figure in Poland who was apparently considered a prophet of sorts.

Thanks a lot for the information! This is definitely interesting to me. I will share some findings from Scholem's book sometime in a few weeks.

[Fomalhaut]

I just started to read the articles and they are taken straight from the book I am currently reading, the book is a very long one and these articles are reflecting kind of summary of the book.

[Jiva]

Ah, sorry for getting your hopes up. Maybe someone else will find them interesting. Based on your testimony and those summaries I'll definitely be getting his book at some point .

[Fomalhaut]

Ah, sorry for getting your hopes up.

Not a problem at all. It is good that other members of the forum can benefit from it