Re: Norse Mythology/Runes
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:35 pm
Well, I forgot what it was that I was supposed to write.
Instead, I'll do as mentioned above and sink my teeth into Freyja-Frigg-Gullveig (and, Heidr).
We brushed on the topic a little bit with Jiva previously, but I'd like to discuss this further. Do you think that these are separate, or one? Here by "one" I mean different faces of one character, or however we like to call her?
Freyja, as I understand, is very old and goes by numerous names. ("Freyja" actually means "lady", so it's not a name-name, rather a title, that was also given to esteemed women). I don't have my books at hand so I can't double-check my spelling with old names, feel free to correct where I go wrong. I write this super clearly and often state what is well known to at least frater Jiva, as perhaps not all who read this are familiar with the names or concepts. So, apologies for stating the obvious.
As I understand, the Vanic cults were much older than that of the Aesir worship in ancient Scandinavia. Personally I tend to see some connection with finns and Freyja (whether sami or finns I am yet to decide- most probably sami), mainly due to the art of seidr (witchcraft type of magic) which is known by the Vanir, and taught by them to the Aesir. Characteristics to seidr magic seem to be shapeshifting and trance work, so this corresponds with shamanic trances (finn. "loveen lankeaminen"). Loki seems to know seidr as well, but as Jiva pointed out earlier, shapeshifting isn't really something that the Aesir do (except for Odin, who learns this from Freyja) and Loki isn't one of the Aesir anyway. I discussed this topic briefly with a runemaster not too long ago, and he was of the opinion that seidr was probably something that vikings learned from finns. Seidr most certainly was demonized if not questionable from the beginning, and as I understand mainly women's skill, and it was considered shameful for men to practice (to do so was to be ergi). A possible sexual practice included, though I'm still to find a satisfactory explanation of seidr- which obviously I will never get.
As to how much the northland mistress Louhi has been demonized in Kalevala is unclear to me, but here perhaps a parallel to Gullveig, who then morphs into Heidr and, if we want to see this connection, to Freyja.
The first war in the world, she well remembers,
When Gullveig was spitted on spear-points
And in Hár's (Odin's) hall, burned her.
Thrice burned, thrice reborn,
Well asserted, she lives yet.
Völuspá 21
This burning process I tend to link metaphorically to the separating of precious metal from impurities, that is done by fire. But perhaps I tend to think this when I read these lines, as I've often watched my father work with metal. But obviously, interpreting sagas is not this simple. Just thought to mention.
An exception of the Aesir not knowing the art of seidr might be Frigg, as she, as Freyja, possesses a falcon-feather cape. I do not remember that any story mentions Frigg ever using it, and it's of course possible that Snorri confuses this with Freyja's cape, that is borrowed by Loki. Or that it was expected that the audience was familiar with some other story. But certainly Frigg is a seeress. There is something norn-like in her, and apparently she spins the material that the norns weave- but here again, this story might have a heavy outside influence.
Rudolf Simek suggests that Freyja was originally most probably a consort and wife to her brother Freyr (a view I tend to share), and only later as she lives with the Aesir is she mentioned to be the wife of Odr (probably another name of Odin's). There is no stories of these two except a mention in the Eddas that Odr wanders the world and Freyja weeps tears of gold in search for him. A possibly romantic later addition, but worth the mention anyway. Freyja's character doesn't really fit into the faithful wife/mother type, but Frigg's most certainly does. And as we know, Odin is constantly searching the world for new knowledge.
It does seem to me that in many of these stories the characters kind of overlap. We already discussed the connections between Heimdallr, Odin and Loki. I have been pondering a similar connection between Freyja and Frigg, but lacking a third one. I did consider Skadi but she didn't quite fit the picture. Nor did Hel, even if I tend to think that there is something sinister or dark in Freyja, that is present in Hel as well. But this might be my kind of romantic view so feel free to bash if you disagree. However, Gullveig would actually fit the picture. Or Heidr, as I tend to think these the same.
They call her Heith when she visits their homes,
A far seeing völva (seeress), wise in talismans (magic).
Caster of spells, cunning in magic.
To wicked women always welcome.
Völuspá 22
(Although this translation is perhaps not very accurate, as they tend to wary quite a lot. Other translations suggest that she "bewitches minds" or falls into trances. And "wicked women" most probably, should be "wise women". The poem names her as "Wise-speaking".)
If we can agree that the Old Norse name "Gullveig" has something to do with gold, this links neatly to Freyja's aspects- as she frequently is connected with treasures and gold. Heidr (ON "honour" or "shining"), on the other hand, seems to be more of a title for a seeress than a actual name, with the exception of perhaps Völuspá where I do think it to be a actual character. But, here again, shining things, and Freyja's well known for her radiance.
Thoughts, gentlemen? (And ladies, should they join the conversation! )
edit: typos
Instead, I'll do as mentioned above and sink my teeth into Freyja-Frigg-Gullveig (and, Heidr).
We brushed on the topic a little bit with Jiva previously, but I'd like to discuss this further. Do you think that these are separate, or one? Here by "one" I mean different faces of one character, or however we like to call her?
Freyja, as I understand, is very old and goes by numerous names. ("Freyja" actually means "lady", so it's not a name-name, rather a title, that was also given to esteemed women). I don't have my books at hand so I can't double-check my spelling with old names, feel free to correct where I go wrong. I write this super clearly and often state what is well known to at least frater Jiva, as perhaps not all who read this are familiar with the names or concepts. So, apologies for stating the obvious.
As I understand, the Vanic cults were much older than that of the Aesir worship in ancient Scandinavia. Personally I tend to see some connection with finns and Freyja (whether sami or finns I am yet to decide- most probably sami), mainly due to the art of seidr (witchcraft type of magic) which is known by the Vanir, and taught by them to the Aesir. Characteristics to seidr magic seem to be shapeshifting and trance work, so this corresponds with shamanic trances (finn. "loveen lankeaminen"). Loki seems to know seidr as well, but as Jiva pointed out earlier, shapeshifting isn't really something that the Aesir do (except for Odin, who learns this from Freyja) and Loki isn't one of the Aesir anyway. I discussed this topic briefly with a runemaster not too long ago, and he was of the opinion that seidr was probably something that vikings learned from finns. Seidr most certainly was demonized if not questionable from the beginning, and as I understand mainly women's skill, and it was considered shameful for men to practice (to do so was to be ergi). A possible sexual practice included, though I'm still to find a satisfactory explanation of seidr- which obviously I will never get.
As to how much the northland mistress Louhi has been demonized in Kalevala is unclear to me, but here perhaps a parallel to Gullveig, who then morphs into Heidr and, if we want to see this connection, to Freyja.
The first war in the world, she well remembers,
When Gullveig was spitted on spear-points
And in Hár's (Odin's) hall, burned her.
Thrice burned, thrice reborn,
Well asserted, she lives yet.
Völuspá 21
This burning process I tend to link metaphorically to the separating of precious metal from impurities, that is done by fire. But perhaps I tend to think this when I read these lines, as I've often watched my father work with metal. But obviously, interpreting sagas is not this simple. Just thought to mention.
An exception of the Aesir not knowing the art of seidr might be Frigg, as she, as Freyja, possesses a falcon-feather cape. I do not remember that any story mentions Frigg ever using it, and it's of course possible that Snorri confuses this with Freyja's cape, that is borrowed by Loki. Or that it was expected that the audience was familiar with some other story. But certainly Frigg is a seeress. There is something norn-like in her, and apparently she spins the material that the norns weave- but here again, this story might have a heavy outside influence.
Rudolf Simek suggests that Freyja was originally most probably a consort and wife to her brother Freyr (a view I tend to share), and only later as she lives with the Aesir is she mentioned to be the wife of Odr (probably another name of Odin's). There is no stories of these two except a mention in the Eddas that Odr wanders the world and Freyja weeps tears of gold in search for him. A possibly romantic later addition, but worth the mention anyway. Freyja's character doesn't really fit into the faithful wife/mother type, but Frigg's most certainly does. And as we know, Odin is constantly searching the world for new knowledge.
It does seem to me that in many of these stories the characters kind of overlap. We already discussed the connections between Heimdallr, Odin and Loki. I have been pondering a similar connection between Freyja and Frigg, but lacking a third one. I did consider Skadi but she didn't quite fit the picture. Nor did Hel, even if I tend to think that there is something sinister or dark in Freyja, that is present in Hel as well. But this might be my kind of romantic view so feel free to bash if you disagree. However, Gullveig would actually fit the picture. Or Heidr, as I tend to think these the same.
They call her Heith when she visits their homes,
A far seeing völva (seeress), wise in talismans (magic).
Caster of spells, cunning in magic.
To wicked women always welcome.
Völuspá 22
(Although this translation is perhaps not very accurate, as they tend to wary quite a lot. Other translations suggest that she "bewitches minds" or falls into trances. And "wicked women" most probably, should be "wise women". The poem names her as "Wise-speaking".)
If we can agree that the Old Norse name "Gullveig" has something to do with gold, this links neatly to Freyja's aspects- as she frequently is connected with treasures and gold. Heidr (ON "honour" or "shining"), on the other hand, seems to be more of a title for a seeress than a actual name, with the exception of perhaps Völuspá where I do think it to be a actual character. But, here again, shining things, and Freyja's well known for her radiance.
Thoughts, gentlemen? (And ladies, should they join the conversation! )
edit: typos