Norse Mythology/Runes

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Heith
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Heith » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:28 pm

Jiva wrote:Rudolf Simek's Dictionary of Northern Mythology
It looks like this is a book I must get myself. Thanks for the tip!
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Heith
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Heith » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:40 am

I'd like to recommend this series by professor Neil Price.

Part one: The Children of Ash: Cosmology and the Viking Universe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJZBqmGLHQ8

Sorry, I don't know how to make this look neat :/
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Jiva
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Jiva » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:07 am

Thanks, this series looks really intersting. It's making me miss uni even more :lol:.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Sebomai
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Sebomai » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:31 am

Aside from adapting the use of Runes, how do people in general feel about how to mix any aspects of Norse spirituality with the Star of Azazel's Satanic ideals and philosophy? I ask, because I know we adapt much in other religions, utilizing whatever true spirituality wherever it can be found, and I have a great deal of Nordic heritage, by way of the Norman invaders of England! My family came over in that invasion to England, fought, conquered, and stayed. We grew fairly powerful in our new home, obviously not as ravenous Vikings, but we still can be traced back to those wild Danes and others of that ilk. So, what would one interested in incorporating elements of Heathenry recommend?
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Heith
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Heith » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:07 pm

Well, I'd say that the subject is gigantically large. We've talked about this a little via private messages, and runes aside, I think there's a hell of a lot of interesting, unexplored or nearly unexplored material for self-development in the Nordic system. I've never felt much interest towards, say, Indian mythology. For me is a question of why go far away to fish when there's plenty of nourishing salmon to fatten me up in the backyard.

I also think that it's near impossible to recommend anything to anyone else, especially as I don't know you and therefore have no idea of your interests, temperament etc- this is a search and a quest one has to do on their own pretty much.

My worldview, as you know, is shamanic / heathen, even if I share philosophical ideas of satanism. But this we talked about already on our messages.

I'd just say go with the runes. It's a really rewarding path, and one that leads onwards. There's quite a bit of wisdom in the old texts as well. I shall quote the wisest of them all here and conclude:

"Ere long I bare fruit, and throve full well,
I grew and waxed in wisdom;
word following word, I found me words,
deed following deed, I wrought deeds."


So, it's the every day things and choices for me, my personal ethics and growth that matter the most. Everyone is their own garden, and we all have a little different ideas on what kind of things we like to see grow :)

EDIT;

PS. Personally, I like poppies.
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Jiva
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Jiva » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:00 pm

As Heith said, it's a difficult question to answer as the subject is huge and I don't know you personally. You could attempt to incorporate figures from Norse mythology into already extant hymns or invocations from any variety of traditions. Norse gods, giants, thurses etc. frequently have a huge amount of alternate names often with secondary meanings, so matching syllables and meanings shouldn't be too hard. However this would of course necessitate some pre-existing knowledge of Norse mythology. Perhaps this could be a cyclical learning process: creating, although perhaps not reciting hymns, until you're satisfied with the result?
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Jiva » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 pm

I was asked a question in the private forum regarding a statement I made where I said that Heimdall is the Norse equivalent of the Roman Janus. I figured I'd post my reasoning behind this in the public forum. Ultimately my statement is based on an initial comparison in Georges Dumézil's Gods of the Ancient Northmen, itself based on the work of Jan de Vries.

Simply put, both Heimdall and Janus are posited to be gods that allow events to be framed. The easiest thing for me to do here is to directly quote Dumézil:
Heimdall, without being the principal god nor chief of the gods, is “first” in different respects and according to the same specifications as Janus; in time, he is born in the beginning; he is the ancestor of humanity, the procreator of the classes and the founder of all social order; in space he is posted at the threshold of the divine world...and so, like Janus, he is the watchman, the sentry with the qualities that can be desired of such a sentry.
Furthermore Jupiter and Janus could be considered to have a relationship similar to that of Odin and Heimdall: Janus/Heimdall rule over the lower levels of creation, Jupiter/Odin over the higher. However, it seems to me that Janus is more involved in the journeys of mankind and tangible time e.g. years and lifetimes, whereas Heimdall seems to concern himself with the beginning and end of the cosmic era. There is also a large difference regarding how both were worshipped: Janus was extremely popular, whereas aside from hints from odd archaeological artefacts, it's not really known how Heimdall was worshipped.

The rest of the 20 or so pages of the Heimdall chapter focuses on the framing/sentry aspect of Heimdall with Dyaus/Bhisma.

Dumézil's aforementioned book is relatively expensive to get (in English, at least), but a lot of his statement regarding Heimdall are summarised, accepted and sometimes expanded upon in Jaan Puhvel's Comparative Mythology. Bizarrely though, Puhvel only makes one mention of Janus in the entire book and omits de Vries's and Dumézil's comparison of Heimdall and Janus. However, Heimdall is nevertheless described in the context of a framing god and again compared with Dyaus/Bhisma, with an addition of a potential alchemical symbolism.

If anyone would like me to expand on any of the above points I can write some more and provide mythological and other secondary sources. I've made it quite short as I am conscious of trying to avoid posting a long, boring essay, particularly on a forum.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Heith
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Heith » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:08 am

A very interesting and welcome post, thank you. Heimdall is one of the Norse gods that seem the most puzzling (and a little distant) to me. I've to say that I agree with you on most if not all on what you wrote. Rigsthula seems to suggest that Rig is Heimdall and therefore a ancestral god as you mention- and even if some think Rig as Odin, well, I think Heimdall might a side of Odin, as is Loki- something which I connect with Eihwaz rune and Axis Mundi (or Yggdrasil), although on that I'd put Heimdall as a "higher" aspect of Odin, rather than vice versa.

Sorry, this might be a little badly written- I should be sleeping since a few hours but my mind is teeming with all sorts of things, and obviously I was too happy to see this post and had to reply immediately :)
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Jiva
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Jiva » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:43 pm

You are not alone. Everything I've read about Heimdall is usually prefaced by statements mentioning that he's generally enigmatic to everyone :P.

However, Heimdall being Rig is basically accepted by academics. The nine mothers of Heimdall's birth are sometimes called giantesses which could be an oblique reference to Odin's heritage. Heimdall is also called Odin's son in Skáldskaparmál 8 which could be suggestive, although there's the possibility that this is an error by Snorri.

Something that could link Heimdall to Odin more persuasively is the similarity between Heimdall's Hlijoð (horn or ear) laying beneath Yggdrasil in a way similar to Odin's eye in Mimir's well. Additionally, Himinbjorg is at the other end of the cosmos at the top of the rainbow bridge (Bifröst) suggesting something similar to the pillar of Yggdrasil, but instead circumventing Midgard and therefore acting as a firmament. This firmament is also a bridge for the deserving dead to cross from Hel to Valhalla, with there being traditions of people burying the dead with Hel-shoes to help the journey along. It's reasons such as this that make me think Heimdall is more concerned with the health of the era rather than the affairs of mankind: the higher aspect of Odin as you said.

When I stated in my previous post that the rest of the 20 or so pages of Dumézil's Heimdall chapter focuses on the framing/sentry aspect of Heimdall with Dyaus/Bhisma, I'd actually drafted a bit more, but somehow didn't post it :oops:. The chapter also contains a striking comparison with between the birth of a Welsh mythological figure and the birth of Heimdall which is also reproduced by Puhvel. Additionally, I also meant to state that connecting Heimdall with Dyaus/Bhisma is only one of two main Hindu comparative theories; Rydberg and F. R. Schröder instead link Heimdall to Agni. Both theories are persuasive and perhaps not mutually exclusive as comparative mythology is far from an exact science.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
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Heith
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Re: Norse Mythology/Runes

Postby Heith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:39 am

Thank you for posting this.

I'd like to know more about these shoes you mention, Hel-shoes?

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