Ten Virtues

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.

What is the virtue you think you'd need to put more attention in?

Aspiration (spiritual Working)
2
6%
Loving-kindness
3
8%
Truthfulness
4
11%
Patience
5
14%
Creativity
4
11%
Self-discipline
4
11%
Courage
4
11%
Self-reflection
1
3%
Ability to know when there is need to invert a virtue
5
14%
Ability to know what virtue to emphasise in a situation
4
11%
 
Total votes: 36
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Astraya
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Astraya »

I picked patience, virtue what I absolutely should raise in me. Lack of patience brings many stressful situations and worries which are not real but my own fast visions. In occult work patience is very important area, it brings safety and wideness among other things.
“There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion”
― Carl Gustav Jung
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Nefastos
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Nefastos »

Cerastes wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:06 pmAn interesting concept, especially the last two points.

There are different ways (some of them correct and some incorrect!) to interpret the first meta-virtue's reversions.

Here is one way for applying virtues from anti-virtues:

Aspiration ––– Calm
Loving-kindness ––– Severity
Truthfulness ––– Mystery
Patience ––– Swiftness
Creativity ––– Ability to follow
Self-discipline ––– Ability to let go
Courage ––– Prudence
Self-reflection ––– Fascination

Some of these might need a word of comment:

I chose the word "severity" because of its positive etymology & association. It is not hatred but might seem like hatred, for it has to "sever" off something (cf. Sanskrit "viveka") that is harmful for the process. This is a hard instrument that should not be used lightly in the process of ascending unity.

By "mystery" I mean the ability to, so to say, remain silent when there is magic in the making. This "mystery" is thus a pragmatic womb (or tomb) of happening. This too is an instrument that should not be used too easily, but only when it is actually needed. (Church theology, for example, has been using this "anti-virtue of mystery" as its panacea for every possible problem, with extremely bad results.)

"Ability to follow" is not the same as allegiance or loyalty. Rather, it is just literally what it says. There are many people (esp. in the LHP circles) who simply cannot see anyone being in a place of authority. For them, power always corrupts, and anyone holding any kind of power or authority is always extremely suspicious. Loyalty is, for me, a worse word because it indicates one should follow a bad ruler, bad advice or bad company. Ability to follow is an ability to follow even a changing path, and see good things in following a good, old, stable rule.

By "ability to let go" I mean that one should also learn how to let things happen outside one's control. Self-discipline can become an armour of suffocation, where vivid life turns to petrified lifelessness. This is an important virtue in the White aspect, where the student is usually already quite self-controlled. It also lessens one's dangerous hubris.

I see in "Fascination" something that belongs to the not-self, that is, the great Otherness. It is the well of absolute marvel. This is opposite to what is the self I may self-reflect & analyse. (In occultism these two necessarily contain each other, but still – this is the miracle of being – they remain seemingly separate all the same.)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:26 pm
I find it interesting that the two options that I think are the most fundamental to be able to even enter to the occult life, and which must be kept with one at every moment, had't been chosen at all: Aspiration & Self-reflection. But it must be that these are so vital and thus so used that we all have had some training in them already.
Yes, I think it's exactly that. My first reaction was to be drawn to those above the others, but then I thought that these were obvious and already a part of my overall fabric, so the others should require more attention. But I think, ultimately, aspiration is something I should stay completely mindful of so as to not lose focus.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Polyhymnia »

Ah, thank you for listing an interpretation of the antivirtues. The more I read them, the more I realize I definitely need to work on when to apply them in situations. And in listing them, I see certain places I need to focus my attention there as well, such as letting go in sometimes in place of self discipline. With so many processes going on, it really makes me feel the scope of our Work and how it is never truly finished.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Nefastos »

Thou shouldst vote, my brethren & our guests; our Virtues are racing their tortoise race too evenly.

Does anyone else feel that it is extremely hard to know when to practice self-discipline & when to let go? This seems the hardest, or most obviously hard pair to make the choice in an individual situation.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Benemal
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Benemal »

I picked Courage, because my biggest sin is despair. Maybe I'll get a little deeper into that later.
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:53 pm
Does anyone else feel that it is extremely hard to know when to practice self-discipline & when to let go? This seems the hardest, or most obviously hard pair to make the choice in an individual situation.
Yes, very much so. And I find it to be a very slippery slope from controlled letting go to completely neglecting any self discipline whatsoever. Because of this I'm often stuck on self-discipline that is too rigid for my own good.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Nefastos »

The tortoise of courage is winning, leaving the lazy rabbit of aspiration far behind!
Polyhymnia wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:42 amBecause of this I'm often stuck on self-discipline that is too rigid for my own good.

This is familiar to me too. There's also a vicious circle: demanding too much self-discipline results in situations where that self-discipline is needed more & more, and there is always less possibilities for actually "letting go" in a happy way. In my life this has brought about a weird inner carnival attitude to life itself, since there are seldom possibilities of "letting go" in a way that actually brings release or relief. Thus the whole life becomes like a circus of sorts, & one starts to see everything in a weird light. It's almost like becoming insane without actually going crazy.

"Patience–Swiftness" might be another such pair where it is not always easy what is the best course of action, but since this is so tied up with one's temperament (instead of ethics principally), it causes much less stress. People usually simply end up being patient in some things & swift in some other, according to their personal rhythm, without giving it very much thought.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Mars
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Mars »

Patience is the obvious one as I'm quite impatient. I'm also very creative and my creativity would benefit greatly from more patience. Self-reflection is something I do way too much, so that maybe the ability to know when there is need to invert a virtue would come handy in this. The third one is aspiration. No doubt patience would help with this virtue also. So patience, aspiration and the word monster of the ability to know when there is need to invert a virtue.
Asuradūta
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Re: Ten Virtues

Post by Asuradūta »

Frater Nefastos' explanation about the reverse virtues is most useful, wish I had found this topic earlier. The reverse virtues have been the other great stumbling block in my rosary practice (alongside the final decade).
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