Seal of the languages

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Angolmois

Seal of the languages

Post by Angolmois »

In the rune work I'm going through it is recommended that one learns several different languages if possible. In the rune work they are at least Old Norse and Old English. Many magicians seem to be fervent students of different languages if they are serious with their Opus. In perennial magical traditions it is some times recommended that one should learn the traditional sacred languages, and many esotericists have been known to speak fluently in many languages.

What do you think is the "seal of the languages" - a term I coined just know to denote the secret of learning different languages - in esotericism other than being able to read books in different languages and communicating with people abroad if thus happens? Is there a more esoteric reason in getting to know languages?

One thing came to my mind yesterday when this thing popped into my head. The connection between manas and buddhi to language, speaking, reading, writing etc., could the Master "speak to the student" in different languages also and thus widen one's intellectual and spiritual horizons?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.
obnoxion
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by obnoxion »

Boreas wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:41 pm Is there a more esoteric reason in getting to know languages?
Language sets a certain limit to one's world. The more languages one knows, the more chance one has of escaping the prison of language. But I think that that one needs to be poetic about it to really break free.

In genuinelly sacred texts, every word is heavy with meanings. This goes especially to revealed texts. One needs to consult the original text. Even though one would need to rely on a translation, it would be good to contemplate the important words in the original.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Kavi
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Kavi »

For me it's at the same time entertaining to play with etymology and also see how different parts of the world have been connected together in older times.
I think for me languages represent different ways to look at the world and sometimes grammar or vocabulary reveals this in interesting ways.
Etymology is sometimes but not always quite close to kind of Wettenhovi's which is good in the sense that they have to be on their toes while reading different archaic words.
For example thinking of Finnish words Huhta which is said to come from indo-aryan vocabulary "to burn" (suxta)
but some consonant variations happened during this time.
Then we have "kaski" which comes from scandinavian aske. Problem with etymology is that it's not really consistent and sometimes these words don't have intuitive relation between each other. Anyway I find it enjoyable to think also about Ior Bock's word etymologies which are very associative.

Is it also a practical use in perennial magical, tradition to learn Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Sanskrit perhaps? I mean for centuries some of the empires/regions have hold religious and political power and has influenced in other languages. From Latin to French and from French to English for instance.
Language has a lot of power.

Studying these languages give also wider understanding of connections and associations. Also the learning might happen through associations.
In Russian "violin" is not violon or like in Finnish viulu or anything which closely would resemble this word. Instead it's "skripka" and only way to memorize it is to imagine how violin may sound and maybe when practitioner has gotten to play his first note. I assume it would sound like:"skrrrrr".
As I started to practice some languages I knew that it had also karmic relations and maybe some kind of mercurial reason behind it. English is lingua franca nowadays but I think it is not enough if one, like me, tries to become connected to different human experiences.

I am not sure did my post answer directly to seal of language but the question is so multidimensional that I tried to cover different things at once.
Krepusculum
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Krepusculum »

Languages play a crucial role in my understanding of the world and the Absolute. Having grown up speaking different tongues has influenced my thinking and perception greatly, to this day my thinking goes through different idioms to find associations and validate itself. It does grant access to more information but I believe it's greatest value lies in the spirit it expresses. Some concepts are close to impossible to translate from one language to another and so the striving for a universal body of knowledge is also directly connected to a greater understanding that is enabled through the powers that reside in the body of language. Different idioms don't only change my intellectual perception but especially my mood and can work as gate to the deeper heart.
Boreas wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:41 pm The connection between manas and buddhi to language, speaking, reading, writing etc., could the Master "speak to the student" in different languages also and thus widen one's intellectual and spiritual horizons?
I think this also would best describe the underlying causes for speech and writing. Personally I believe languages contain a secret element that can reveal itself through the connection between manas and buddhi as an unobstructed charge from atma. Cultural aspects hold certain perceptions that only find their expression in a certain vocabular construction but also intonation, thus how and with what intention things are said but also in what is not said. Ironically I was starting to pick up my interest in sacred languages these last few days again.
Last edited by Krepusculum on Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Insanus
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Insanus »

Some words are not possible to translate and even the ones that are, lose something essential in the process. I love the way Heidegger put it: the task of philosophy is to protect the power of the most essential words. (that quote is translated from finnish by me and the original is in german and I don't even know what it is... )
Words are ways to abstract reality into manageable parts, semantics can be a world-view. To call it seal of languages is quite inspired in my opinion. It could be a prison like obnoxion said, but it could also be a temple, home, marketplace... It can be anything, just not everything at once.
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obnoxion
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by obnoxion »

Insanus wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:48 pm To call it seal of languages is quite inspired in my opinion. It could be a prison like obnoxion said, but it could also be a temple, home, marketplace... It can be anything, just not everything at once.
Indeed! In con-templation of spiritualy rich words, one literally builds a temple. There are languages where each word, each letter is thusly rich - like biblical hebrew. When one opens the Tanakh, one finds a metropolis of sanctuaries.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Benemal
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Benemal »

It is a temple, sort of. A profane one, called Babel (or tower of Babylon). That's the language we are using here. Originally a mix of Celtic, Latin and German, modern English is the new basic and is becoming another language. We are contributing, in a small way, to that linguistic evolution. Open source language. A very profane and banal evolution, despite some civilized people (not me).
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Benemal
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Benemal »

I didn't mean to shit on English. It's the most convenient language to know, because it enabled me to read any book I want.
obnoxion
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by obnoxion »

I have been thinking about the charm of latin. I read that the ancient Rome represents the last era when culturally everything that ever was, was still present in some form. In this way, Christianity is the great destroyer. And hasn't this been used as a valid argument against it?

But also, latin is among the things that Christinity actually preserved; even more than that, it preserved its sacrality. So in this manner, latin is the language of the collectively ancient; and for the Western world, collectively subconscious. Yet simultaneously, it is the adopted language of the great destroyer and the great redeemer, the Catholic Christianity.

Now, as especially Catholicism is, I claim, submerging in the magical underworld of the ancients, it is aquiring more and more of the sinister aura of that world. But a few hundred years back it was still the common language of rationality and light, and that is where the contrast becomes more stressed. But still I feel it forms a lifeline to the deep layers of the ancient past, both inner and outer. And that is one reason I feel it is a very suitable language for praying.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Peregrina
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Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Peregrina »

Why would latin, sankrit or tibetan be a better choice of language for prayers and mantras than your native language?
In terms of common sense it seems most efficient to use your native language, because it has been with you all your life and thus is probably most deep rooted. Of course it doesn't feel so festive nor sacred, because it's in everyday use..
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