Murder and the Soul

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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Cerastes
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Re: Murder and the Soul

Postby Cerastes » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:13 pm

This is a very difficult topic.
As a child I knew two older men who both fought for the Nazis in WW2.
One of them was a extremely choleric, grumpy and broken person. He hated children and I think he was violent against his wife too.
The other man was a very kind person. Both oft them must have murdered dozens of innocent persons and I don’t even want to imagine what else they did. Paradoxically, the choleric sociopath was far easier for me to handle than the kind man since he gave me enough reason to hate him without thinking twice. Seeing such a person as a evil non-human monster is easier than accepting the fact that this is what normal or even sympathetic humans are capable of. Of course this is too much to process for a child.
In hindsight, I see the whole thing a little differently. While the nice man has tried to find forgiveness by making everything right, the choleric has kept everyone away from him. He wanted to be hated because his guilt was so high that forgiveness or making it right was not an option. If there is a „death of soul“ then it’s probably this particular state of mind.
But in its innermost core, if one is able to dig deep enough, there is some mercy hidden behind all the malance. Pure evil does not exist, but some people are trying to keep this illusion- for themselfes and for others. Maybe this gets intensified because - as it has been mentioned before- we probalby all have been murderers at some point and the murderer himself is a mirror of what we came from and reminds us how we could fall again.

Nefastos wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:40 pm
I find it interesting that you posted this now, while I have been thinking more than ever how absolute a horror it would be – for me – to have a child.
I absolutely share this horror. While I never had any nightmares about murdering someone, the thought of bearing a child or bringing a new life to this world is one of the scariest things I can think of. Others see this as the ultimate fulfillment and I like to see happy young families. Still my horror about having a child seems to be constant.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Aquila
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Re: Murder and the Soul

Postby Aquila » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:25 pm

obnoxion wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:33 am
Many other religious figures were killers too, like Moses for example. But when it comes hard criminals reformed by converting to Christianity, I too have met a few, and most of them have been nothing but impressive. I've understood some people consider it somehow cheap or pathetic way to turn one's life around (at least I used to), but it really isn't.
I guess that based on our western culture Christianity is the most familiar religion to these people so they likely convert to it when they begin to repent. And of course Christianity is well suited for the repenting and this is one of the religion's positive aspects if we consider it's effect on those who are in serious need of such a process.

I've been pondering the curse and mark of Cain which I believe to have many possibilities of more esoteric interpretations but I'm not an expert on the bible issues so there might be dimensions I do not grasp. It's interesting that the mark is also considered as protection against those who wish to revenge the deeds of Cain as such act, according to bible, would result in seven-fold damage to the vengeful. In relation to some theosophical views on karma, this gets more clear as it is told that the fate of those who become the vessels of karma will be even worse than that of the original perpetrator. If we consider that the murderer is carrying a horrible burden, of which he or she might not yet be even fully aware of before awakening to repentance, the one revenging those deeds in the name of justice would greatly enlarge the effects of wrongdoing. It's like taking "the good" and making the situation even worse by it. That is probably quite clear to us but generally in modern satanism and profane life, too, it is not that clear.

This also brings us close to Mars and the challenges it presents and they are not only limited to murders that have already happened but to the process that leads us to commit such crimes. Most often they seem justified to the one who is undertaking the deed and it has taken some time and effort to create a certain kind of shield around oneself where it becomes understandable that violence and to murder someone in this situation is right. Dehumanizing and demonizing certain group of people that stand for something you find loathful happens more and more it seems and we find lot of reasons to hate someone who appears to us as something we are completely against and opposed to. So this is part of the challenges of Mars which in some sense give us the possibility to wield the sword of justice and not understand the opposing forces which humanity most often blindly follow but to fall under the illusion that they are separate from us, which is in the heart of the trials by Satan. Most of us never go so far as to commit any crimes but there is a strong current these days in which I admit I, too, have swam at times. I'd make a guess that this is part of the process which can take one further down the path of descension if all befalls in wrong way. It's probably not just a path of crime and murder but constantly poisoning oneself in such a way that some connections to higher principles are cut.
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Re: Murder and the Soul

Postby obnoxion » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:15 pm

The mark of Cain is often spoken of as a single horn on the head. And it is also said that Cain met his end in the hands of his descendant, Lamech. (Years ago, when I was a fervent student of Hebrew Kabbalah, I had a dream where some Rabbis congratulated me on my studies, and said I understood the subject on the same level as did Lamech. Now I am surprised to realize a link to my nightmares of being a murderer...)

Lamech was an old man, and he was nearly blind when he was hunting. And perhaps it was because of the horn that he mistook Cain for a beast and killed him by accident. But blindness is a Martian quality in the Kabbalah, as the patriarch cortesponding to Gevurah is Isaac. We remember how blinding Isaac was tricked by Yacob, who wore a hairy animals hide to disguise as his brother Esau. So I suppose this is one take on the theme "justice is blind". And this is what I am afraid of - the blindness that can lead to murder. Because it is this blindness that turns one murder into seven murders.

When it comes to having children, I used to be very much opposed to it (which is the traditional stance of the original Eastern concept of the LHP). But due to somewhat mystical circumstances my life got turned upside down in an instant, and I am a tired but happy father of two. And now I have this strangest feeling like my children had always been there, like an unseen presence that just sort of "came out of hiding".

And as my spiritual practice is to unite the Two Paths, I've found a home for my soul in the esoteric householder ideal of the Kaula Traditions. Kaulism, after all, had at her core the same ideal as the SoA - the unity of the RHP and the LHP.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Insanus
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Re: Murder and the Soul

Postby Insanus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Murder could be thought of as the extreme of objectification, as praising the material body-object as more meaningful than the subjective experience. Maybe this dehumanizing assertion gets internalized when someone self-identifies as a murderer through their actions and that's how they lose their soul?
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Re: Murder and the Soul

Postby obnoxion » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:32 am

Insanus wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm
Murder could be thought of as the extreme of objectification, as praising the material body-object as more meaningful than the subjective experience. Maybe this dehumanizing assertion gets internalized when someone self-identifies as a murderer through their actions and that's how they lose their soul?
As it gets internalized, this might actually lead to a sense of soul, when the murderer realizes the unpredicted effects her crime had on herself. At least in Finland, most killers never kill again.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.

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