Dogma in Satanism

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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gryning
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Dogma in Satanism

Postby gryning » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:49 pm

This is a topic about dogma and individuality.

What is your approach to the word dogmatism in Satanism?

Often I see the tendency in religion and politics and sub-cultures of people entering gatherings that tend to remove much of the concepts of creative thinking, to be one with the herd. Often these situations is speaking for individuality but at the same time is having different rules that can limit the individual

Off course such occurances can be something positive and learning, depending on each individual occurance, like in this Brotherhood,
But isnt dogmatism leaping the risk of questioning one key concept?
“The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..” - Milton, Paradise Lost
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Nefastos
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby Nefastos » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:02 pm

I think that choosing a dogma (a dogmatic order) knowingly can be an individual choice, not unlike choosing a school of thought, ethics, or practice of meditation. Naturally it has to be a good one. But there really is no way of choosing "nothing" – the absolute freedom – for there is no way we could even theoretically live without believing in something (however scientific or "rational" that belief can appear to be). Therefore, the question becomes the one of commitment. Plus, perhaps, the depth of interpretation.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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gryning
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby gryning » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:19 pm

Nefastos wrote:I think that choosing a dogma (a dogmatic order) knowingly can be an individual choice, not unlike choosing a school of thought, ethics, or practice of meditation. Naturally it has to be a good one. But there really is no way of choosing "nothing" – the absolute freedom – for there is no way we could even theoretically live without believing in something (however scientific or "rational" that belief can appear to be). Therefore, the question becomes the one of commitment. Plus, perhaps, the depth of interpretation.

Thanks for the quick answer!

I agree with you, its no logic way that we can decide to live without having a belief.

Still, isnt the choices of commient sometimes similair to walking on a board of glowing coal. One step on what would influense me as much as possible to evolve through others, instead the other, of doing the wrongdoings of my fellow beings?

Sometimes i feel like there is a third option, evolve through what you write, the one of commitment and perhaps interpretation.
“The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..” - Milton, Paradise Lost
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Nefastos
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby Nefastos » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:47 am

gryning wrote:One step on what would influense me as much as possible to evolve through others, instead the other, of doing the wrongdoings of my fellow beings?


I'm not sure if I understand, could you elaborate?

gryning wrote:Sometimes i feel like there is a third option, evolve [...]


Yes, I think that there always must be at least a drop of the third option of evolving through deepening understanding of the familiar emblems. Aren't dogmas also emblems if interpreted, and can there be spiritualism without interpretation, conscious or subconscious? I mean, taking even the strangest dogmas of, for example, Christian church, as occultists we can understand what can be meant by them. Even the moral dogmas can be seen to be scripted acts in a mystery play; a mythic narrative on cosmic stage, instead of absolute demands that state ontological facts. For as in all life, one individual cannot play all the roles; he simply does not have time for that.

Our times' interest in the Left Hand Path anti-dogmatism very often becomes a stifling dogma by itself, leading to all kinds of ritual formalism & tribal demands.

All this can be said, however, only from the basis where we first agree that dogmatism is foremostly problematic. I am not saying we should encourage dogmatic mindset systematically, quite the contrary.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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gryning
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby gryning » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:29 pm

I apologize my late answer.

I think the view you explain regarding dogmatism is something I can agree with. The more positive aspect of mentally engaging and dig into the different groups and constructions. There is always things to gather and learn from religious dogmas, like with christianity, a more mature approach and deeper understanding of cosmos.


"Our times' interest in the Left Hand Path anti-dogmatism very often becomes a stifling dogma by itself, leading to all kinds of ritual formalism & tribal demands."

This is one of the main points of starting this topic, something that many times is contributing striving towards something that can be limiting to the individual.

Im not sayig that dogma is wrong, more complicated. The risk is in building a dualistic view on facts that can lead to wrong actions.
“The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..” - Milton, Paradise Lost
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby Cerastes » Sat May 26, 2018 3:10 pm

In my opinion dogmatism is the foundation for creative thinking. You need to have a solid base of things that cannot be questioned. If you question that base how could you possibly think further? I always followd self-chosen dogmas even in uncomfortabel situations. Not because someone forced me to but because that is what freedom means to me. After all it the right to find my own definition of freedom and my definition includes dogmas. The misleading thought is that a dogma is something to put on others. Every ideology, religion, idea and spiritual path becomes critical when you force it on others because it might not suit them.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby obnoxion » Sat May 26, 2018 4:00 pm

Red Bird wrote:In my opinion dogmatism is the foundation for creative thinking.
This is exactly how I feel! Limits intensify creativity, be they stylistic, dogmatic, legislatic... Individuality is most scintillating when distributed through a thick sieve.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Cerastes
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby Cerastes » Sat May 26, 2018 4:39 pm

obnoxion wrote:
Red Bird wrote:In my opinion dogmatism is the foundation for creative thinking.
This is exactly how I feel! Limits intensify creativity, be they stylistic, dogmatic, legislatic... Individuality is most scintillating when distributed through a thick sieve.
Well said. It is however a deficit of our time to want it all. The unwillingness let go -or to let die- is found everywhere. A dogma means to willingly let something go to improve something else.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby Smaragd » Sun May 27, 2018 12:20 pm

As dogma or anykind of limitation can sieve out the essence of things or reveal a spirit of some sort in its bare bones, in its true individuality, so there seems to be some very potent source of oneness in the archetypes. Whether we look at ourselves or the archtypes it is a curious thing how individuality is remarked as something separate while it seems to be the opposite. Reminds me of the swastika turning and turning, which is not unlike the creativity the dogmatic tension creates.
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Re: Dogma in Satanism

Postby obnoxion » Sun May 27, 2018 3:34 pm

Smaragd wrote:As dogma or anykind of limitation can sieve out the essence of things or reveal a spirit of some sort in its bare bones, in its true individuality, so there seems to be some very potent source of oneness in the archetypes. Whether we look at ourselves or the archtypes it is a curious thing how individuality is remarked as something separate while it seems to be the opposite. Reminds me of the swastika turning and turning, which is not unlike the creativity the dogmatic tension creates.
Individuality is indeed seen as something very particular and unique, which might be strange to connect to source of oneness, since the idea of oneness compared to manifest individuality must seem like a bowl of warm milk. It would actually be quite interesting to discuss the differences of the concepts of oneness and homogenity.

I would describe the source of oneness that is the fountain of individuality as an ocean of infinit latency, an infinite source of self-sufficiency, that is drawn forth by the limitations. There might an endless ocean of latency, of known and unknown possibility, resting silently amidst us, and yet be as nothing. That anything at all manifests from such an ocean is a miracle. Such an ocean, even if we cannot put our fingers in it and see if they get wet, would be more real than all the fingers in the world, for it could swallow us and spit us out, and never be disturbed. And as both the limitation and the latency, as well as the dynamism between them are and are not the oneness, it would be mistake to think of oneness as a state of homogenity. Oneness, or rather, a state of nonduality would be, I think, a state where the latent and the manifest are undivided.

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