Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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Nefastos
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Nefastos » Mon May 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Red Bird wrote:Whatever part dies because of an intense emotion was not worth being kept alive. I’m not speaking about damage, I’m speaking about death.


But for an occultist, what is "death"?

This is the terrible key-keeper that blocks our way: There is no way out. There is no ceasing.

We can (and we should) try to work with the whole of our soul, with the whole of the energetical spectrum of creation (including transformations known as death), but the nauseating terror in this is that it never ends. Which means, that our idea that at some point will come either some healing or collapse (death; annihilation) if we just put our best effort to the work, will be tested.

Let's say we pass that test, and move on.

But... it doesn't stop there. The damage that has been done to our psyche, our psychoenergetical whole, is there. The chopped off limb is gone. Yet the work continues, the life continues, the tests continue; new limbs will be demanded. In this way, psyche can become like a vampire victim.

When I was young, I used to keep my eyes in beautiful death. That at some day all this will end. But when the terrible truth starts to dawn, namely, that this will never end, there we have Despair that is not like a shadow seen on the light canvas, but total black that swallows whole the canvas, the artist with all his tools, the apartment, the whole Piedmont & all the stars in the firmament.

That Despair is no longer an emotion, in the same way Love isn't. These two are the whole ocean of salty water drops, lasting so much longer than any eyes from where they are poured. There are depths for Despair that can be reached by full conviction of immortality.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Cerastes
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Cerastes » Mon May 28, 2018 8:40 pm

Heith wrote:
Red Bird wrote:
I can only give you my personal experience on this. It might depend on the individual and I tend to be a little radical on those things.
Whatever part dies because of an intense emotion was not worth being kept alive. I’m not speaking about damage, I’m speaking about death. One can spend his whole life trying to repair damaged goods and they will determine his life from this point. I prefer to tear it all down in the most relentless way possible. So I would most likely let the despair grow until it is unbearable and destroys whatever should be destroyed. As you said destruction is an essence of occultism. After doing this for a decade my relationship to emotions has become more distant. They are nothing more like a tool that can be used. So a strong emotion would be a powerful tool and not something to run away from.
I'm not entirely on the same lines with you, if I understand you correctly. While I do absolutely agree that one must seek to remove negative, damaging / hindering parts which stand on the way of one's spiritual growth -by undertaking them in one way or another, by growing through those experiences- there are ways to do things which are not damaging. There is ways to let things die which happen without the somewhat violent nature of despair.

If my above text read as that I recommend running away from emotions, that was not at all what I meant. I was simply pondering if despair is a necessary tool at all or could it be replaced with something else that would get the same job done. So one can go through a stone with a drill, or let water carve its course. Both alter the stone but the rhythm and nature of these is quite different.

This can of course depend greatly of how one lives their life. For example to me emotions are a complete necessity and being in touch with them is something that must be in check always, because without this sensitive contact I can not hope for any kind of satisfactory result in my line of work (artist).
Thanks for your answer.
There is no need to agree, it would be quite boring to have someone repeating my thoughts.
I’m handling negative and positive emotions in the same way for they are the same to me. Let them grow but cut the connection with everything formal so they can act on the inside. Neither would I love or hate another human being which of course comes at a high cost. It is a destructive way. I always thought it will knock me out completely one day. Tickling the borderline to self-destruction is exactly what I did and still do. Yes, I’m drilling that stone.
I wouldn’t advise anyone to handle emotions in the relentless deep-red aries way I do. If you tend do go forward in a more reasonable way it has absolutely nothing to do with running away from emotions. 
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Cerastes » Mon May 28, 2018 8:56 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Red Bird wrote:Whatever part dies because of an intense emotion was not worth being kept alive. I’m not speaking about damage, I’m speaking about death.


But for an occultist, what is "death"?

This is the terrible key-keeper that blocks our way: There is no way out. There is no ceasing.

We can (and we should) try to work with the whole of our soul, with the whole of the energetical spectrum of creation (including transformations known as death), but the nauseating terror in this is that it never ends. Which means, that our idea that at some point will come either some healing or collapse (death; annihilation) if we just put our best effort to the work, will be tested.

Let's say we pass that test, and move on.

But... it doesn't stop there. The damage that has been done to our psyche, our psychoenergetical whole, is there. The chopped off limb is gone. Yet the work continues, the life continues, the tests continue; new limbs will be demanded. In this way, psyche can become like a vampire victim.

When I was young, I used to keep my eyes in beautiful death. That at some day all this will end. But when the terrible truth starts to dawn, namely, that this will never end, there we have Despair that is not like a shadow seen on the light canvas, but total black that swallows whole the canvas, the artist with all his tools, the apartment, the whole Piedmont & all the stars in the firmament.

That Despair is no longer an emotion, in the same way Love isn't. These two are the whole ocean of salty water drops, lasting so much longer than any eyes from where they are poured. There are depths for Despair that can be reached by full conviction of immortality.
There is quite lot of despair and love gleaming between your beautiful words.
The total black and diffuse despair you are talking about is something one cannot hide. People feel it in ones presence even without knowing what it is. There faces reflect it and every contact with another human being turns out to be a mirror of despair. Did you ever make that experience? Sorry for being curious. I never had contact with other occultists. It's more of a maverick thing for me.
After diving into this ocean I instantly isolate myself from any contact. The pain comes from the fact that I have to deal with the what is called normality. If I'm looking back at that it makes me recognize how far away I am and that I could never go back even if I wanted.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Nefastos » Tue May 29, 2018 1:26 pm

Red Bird wrote:There faces reflect it and every contact with another human being turns out to be a mirror of despair. Did you ever make that experience?


If you mean, mirror for their despair, then no. On the contrary, I'm always confused how people do not share the same horror.

If you mean, mirror for my despair, in that case yes. The experience was strongest when I was only a teenager, and first noticed the emphasised impossibility of this world around. It took two decades to learn how not to see that uncanny valley, but to disperse the focus more into the consensus reality.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Cerastes » Tue May 29, 2018 7:28 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Red Bird wrote:There faces reflect it and every contact with another human being turns out to be a mirror of despair. Did you ever make that experience?


If you mean, mirror for their despair, then no. On the contrary, I'm always confused how people do not share the same horror.

If you mean, mirror for my despair, in that case yes. The experience was strongest when I was only a teenager, and first noticed the emphasised impossibility of this world around. It took two decades to learn how not to see that uncanny valley, but to disperse the focus more into the consensus reality.
So it was most likely your despair that made you search for the consensus reality.
Isn't that a good thing born from despair? By „good“ I don't mean something that makes you happy. We all know that happiness is just another sacrifice to the path we walk. For me „good“ equals „true“. Despair is a cleaning energy that gives you the truth in the most merciless way. So despair is in fact a blessing of Satan.
-
I don't know if this makes sense to you since I don't fully understand your philosophy yet.
Still this forum is amazing I never found so much thoughtful, kind and intelligent content at one page.
You should totally keep it alive.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
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Heith
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Heith » Tue May 29, 2018 10:43 pm

Red Bird wrote:Still this forum is amazing I never found so much thoughtful, kind and intelligent content at one page.
You should totally keep it alive.
A offtopic note:
By posting on our forum, you are also keeping them alive. So thank you for contributing!

I'll now rush back to my annual vacation preparations ->

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