Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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LunaticSun
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by LunaticSun »

Dear Smaragd,
Smaragd wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 pm Absolute is better word than ”total” to understand this point of view.
I'm sorry, I was trying to find the proper words, but failed at it... I meant the total evil, as a characteristics of some deed (even though it indeed cannot be measured properly from human point of view), whereas nonexistence of absolute evil I consider to be as natural as non-existence of absolute good, unless we speak of their unity.
Smaragd wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 pm If a man harms another person, isn’t he acting from a place where he fails to understand the relationship between them and the meaning of the other person in the whole of the world?
Now this is something I understand, but cannot accept fully. (Though presumably I should, for I did not experience it and therefore am corporally, which should include thoughts, detached from it). Because when it happens to someone I doubt that they can share a similar view, such philosophy would fail to aid for there seems to be no justification...
And now to be honest I don't even know what I seek (lol), for neither I would like this action to be justified in any way, nor be considered as good, or even total evil, for it makes no difference. But thanks to Nefastos' commentary on the chapters, I now see the distinctions, though I must reread them to grasp completely.
However, your idea also draws another question - what are the factors that make humans do such horrible things?

Smaragd wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 pm Such scare tactics as lessons could be seen only to build outer moral conformity, while true occult lessons in ethics are taken within individuals owns decision regarding situations of ethical choices. Ethics are superior to morals, and as a Satanist I would sxdszee it a terrible failure to kill somebody to build moral walls for the sheep; walls that are destined to be destroyed anyway. Only individual living relation to ethics is building on a sound basis.
That is for sure! It was probably a bad example, I don't know, but I just wanted to compare it to something similarly horrible which can be justified as a lesson. For even though it never is, and hell, the executions even used to be entertainment, the thin message "this is a lesson for all of you" from authorities still exists just like video disclaimers no one pays attention to.

Also I was not addressing the revenge. And... we both either made a mistake or just leaped over the words, but the serial killer's victim wouldn't be able to kill the killer cos it is already a victim, oh my, I'm laughing, my mistake.
Here I meant murder as an act of 'self-defence' when the (in-near-future) victim already knows of the intentions of the killer but uses their chance to 'turn the tables'. And I guess you don't mind if I say that both of us would choose this scenario out of the two. Now the third scenario proposed by you changes and improves the situation and I'm thankful, for I tend to miss the 'third side' of things where it is actually necessary and is better, to say nothing of the potential for many more 'sides'. But let's say if there was no possibility to tackle such events peacefully... usually people would prefer defending themselves at all costs. I, personally, would fight because I would feel ashamed for him, and offended. "How dare ya take someone's life? Hey! Staph!"

...And now I fully realize their death would be unfortunate and something I truly wouldn't want to do. For death cannot teach or speak in words with dead. (Unless there's something beyond life...)
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Smaragd
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Smaragd »

LunaticSun wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 am
Smaragd wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:41 pm Absolute is better word than ”total” to understand this point of view.
I'm sorry, I was trying to find the proper words, but failed at it... I meant the total evil, as a characteristics of some deed (even though it indeed cannot be measured properly from human point of view), whereas nonexistence of absolute evil I consider to be as natural as non-existence of absolute good, unless we speak of their unity.
To be fair, 'total' is also one definition for absolute, but atleast to my non-native taste of the English language it seems to dodge the metaphysical connotations of 'absolute'. And this metaphysical aspect of evil is perhaps the most problematic to myself. I guess the only metaphysical aspect of evil is really the allowance of creation, and in human beings the freedom for divine creative choices, which by the way seem to me like a necessary imperfect aspect of the perfect and non-manifest state of the absolute, because these acts of creation make forms and lines that will eventually create those blind spots of evil. From which we come to the following question.
LunaticSun wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 am However, your idea also draws another question - what are the factors that make humans do such horrible things?
We could look at the human being as consisting of many sorts of spirits. Some of these spirits are for example the mechanical nerve impulses informing us from hunger. And when we are struggling to find food to satisfy this part of us, the fire and the voice grows in the mechanical nature of such spirit mercilessly trying to find another way to be noticed and fulfilled. This mechanical nature might eventually bend and distort our whole understanding of the world and ourself as we torture it by not being able to answer its needs. As I'm speaking of hunger, the example could paint a picture of the distorted self-image of someone with a eating disorder. But if the hunger would be sexual in nature, we might understand how someone failing to find proper ways to express and tend ones sexual needs, the whole understanding of the world might become subordinate to the sexual hunger and endangered to be altered by the blind spot of the demonic voice of single need that asks to be fulfilled. Then it might be that someone would ignorantly throw oneself to do horrible things.
LunaticSun wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:00 am Also I was not addressing the revenge. And... we both either made a mistake or just leaped over the words, but the serial killer's victim wouldn't be able to kill the killer cos it is already a victim, oh my, I'm laughing, my mistake.
Here I meant murder as an act of 'self-defence' when the (in-near-future) victim already knows of the intentions of the killer but uses their chance to 'turn the tables'. And I guess you don't mind if I say that both of us would choose this scenario out of the two. Now the third scenario proposed by you changes and improves the situation and I'm thankful, for I tend to miss the 'third side' of things where it is actually necessary and is better, to say nothing of the potential for many more 'sides'. But let's say if there was no possibility to tackle such events peacefully... usually people would prefer defending themselves at all costs. I, personally, would fight because I would feel ashamed for him, and offended. "How dare ya take someone's life? Hey! Staph!"
Haha, I thought the victim would be someone who got away or something. I too would fight to self-defend, but I'd also try to see the nuances by aiming to disarm rather than kill for self defence. I'd be much more ready to die trying that, than dying with the disturbed feelings of considering a murder as a good option for self-preservation.

Perhaps both of our examples can draw some light to the nature of evil and how it exists, and offer something to the challenge of overcoming the void between the absolute and relative perspectives of the world.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Insanus
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Insanus »

One could say that satanist's hatred towards God is unwillingly praising His absolute evil. In this sense the Absolute is Black and it may be for the best that we won't become completely conscious of it. That, in turn is how I could personally see White Lucifer called "the deceiver" in some positive sense. Visions of rape as the total unjustifiable evil are similar to contemplations of Christ's crucifixion. None of it is justified, and only completely immoral and heartless person could call it "good". Probably because he'd be so similar to the disgust of God himself.
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Mars
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Mars »

Nefastos wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 5:31 pm But when the terrible truth starts to dawn, namely, that this will never end, there we have Despair that is not like a shadow seen on the light canvas, but total black that swallows whole the canvas, the artist with all his tools, the apartment, the whole Piedmont & all the stars in the firmament.
When I was younger and reading Blavatsky I found great solace in the fact that the manvantara will eventually come to and end, and a great horror in the fact that there will always be another. As a child I used to think about a possible eternity in heaven and I was extremely anxious and full of despair because of the idea of an existence that would never end. I remember in elementary school our teacher once told us in math class that if you think about eternity long enough you'll go insane because your minds can't understand it, or they don't stretch that far. At some point I thought that it applies to this also. I believe that existence with no end can feel like an absolute despair to our minds which are time-bound, much like the thought of not existing can (the fear of death of the materialists). But isn't it so, though, that our current, limited minds and personalities do not exist eternally, and that the "eternal existence" (although there is always pralaya) doesn't mean that the persons who feel the agony at the moment (me, you) continue to suffer on and on? So to think like that, that there will always be this torturous existence and I can never be free of it, sounds like creating needless suffering, since the I that suffers isn't eternal.
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Angolmois »

Mars wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:08 am
Nefastos wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 5:31 pm But when the terrible truth starts to dawn, namely, that this will never end, there we have Despair that is not like a shadow seen on the light canvas, but total black that swallows whole the canvas, the artist with all his tools, the apartment, the whole Piedmont & all the stars in the firmament.
When I was younger and reading Blavatsky I found great solace in the fact that the manvantara will eventually come to and end, and a great horror in the fact that there will always be another. As a child I used to think about a possible eternity in heaven and I was extremely anxious and full of despair because of the idea of an existence that would never end. I remember in elementary school our teacher once told us in math class that if you think about eternity long enough you'll go insane because your minds can't understand it, or they don't stretch that far. At some point I thought that it applies to this also. I believe that existence with no end can feel like an absolute despair to our minds which are time-bound, much like the thought of not existing can (the fear of death of the materialists). But isn't it so, though, that our current, limited minds and personalities do not exist eternally, and that the "eternal existence" (although there is always pralaya) doesn't mean that the persons who feel the agony at the moment (me, you) continue to suffer on and on? So to think like that, that there will always be this torturous existence and I can never be free of it, sounds like creating needless suffering, since the I that suffers isn't eternal.
I may be wrong but it sounds like there's some confusion between eternity and infinitude here, eternity being beyond time and infinitude being situated in time.
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Mars »

Rúnatýr wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:48 amI may be wrong but it sounds like there's some confusion between eternity and infinitude here, eternity being beyond time and infinitude being situated in time.
More like confusing use of terms from my part. What I meant was that our minds (which are bound in infinitude in their current states) feel terror concerning the idea of eternity (which they can't understand, hence feel that eternity is merely never ending infinitude which is a horrible thought).
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LunaticSun
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by LunaticSun »

I am sorry for intervening. I think i have some ideas on how to differ these two. But how would you describe the difference between them?
Seferoth
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Seferoth »

Yes, i have been depressed and anxious for almost all of my life. While it has been a destructive thing in my life as it has killed most of my social life it has however increased my passion to study and learn new things, depression has also fueled my imagination and artistic tendencies. Today i cannot even tell the difference between depression and feeling "normal", to be depressed and anxious is for me a way of life at this point.
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Gangleri »

Seferoth wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:12 amToday i cannot even tell the difference between depression and feeling "normal", to be depressed and anxious is for me a way of life at this point.
That's quite sad to hear. I have been very depressed eight years out the last nine ones, and I already thought that it is a "life-sentence" for myself. Luckily however, i got healed from the malady almost miraculously in the end of the winter period. What has helped me go through is that I have done normal things whether I feel like doing or not; simply push through the depression with will power. I hope you get through!
Seferoth
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Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Post by Seferoth »

Gangleri wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:48 pm
Seferoth wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:12 amToday i cannot even tell the difference between depression and feeling "normal", to be depressed and anxious is for me a way of life at this point.
That's quite sad to hear. I have been very depressed eight years out the last nine ones, and I already thought that it is a "life-sentence" for myself. Luckily however, i got healed from the malady almost miraculously in the end of the winter period. What has helped me go through is that I have done normal things whether I feel like doing or not; simply push through the depression with will power. I hope you get through!
Thank you. I do have a bit of hope regarding the future. Ever since i chose "another path" i have slowly started to feel a bit better. You see i used to be a Fundementalist Christian and that just kept my depression going as i always felt unworthy or deserving the flames of hell, i never quite felt right. I am now starting to realize that this among other things fed by depression and was one of the reasons why i have felt so miserable for so long. Ever since i found The Star of Azazel, Luciferianism and the writings of Nefastos i have actually started to feel better. I feel that i am finally following the path i have wanted to follow, but has never able to because of fear in damnation/hellfire.
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