Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Nefastos » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:43 pm

I find accurate & ingenious the old model of cardinal sins, where the eighth one besides wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony was despair.

Can good things come from despair?
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Mera
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:43 am

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Mera » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:35 am

Nefastos wrote:I find accurate & ingenious the old model of cardinal sins, where the eighth one besides wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony was despair.

Can good things come from despair?


Yes absolutely, I spent a life time caring for a sick relative, who never got better, this relative got dementia eventually. I spent years trying to find ways of helping my relative, who would always tell me they loved me but disliked me. My relative had a mental health illness so I did all I can not to take it personally. Every time I tried to assist, I would be told don't come to see me unless I tell you too. This relative was so cruel to me. I purposely have not moved out of London because this relative needed me regardless of all the cruelty. In the end I was told "I hate you". I spent years wondering why did this relative hate me so much. I just wanted this person to be happy. When I was a child growing up this relative would tell me that I had the devil beside me and that I was going to hell. This made me really scared. This relative even put a spell on me, never to be 'sexually' tempted.

Eventually, I learnt this...

I did not need that person's love or acceptance to love.

I did not want anything for this person, not even happiness.

I do not need another person's love to feel love.

I am not a victim nor do I allow my self to be victimised.

It was their journey, their free will to have and want what they choose. Loving another does not give me the right to 'choose a want for them' even happiness. It is each to their own. This doesn't mean I do not wish the heavens for them, it just means, that I recognise that even though we were blood related, each retain their own choices. Family tend to 'force', cast and judge how we should be. Regardless of good or bad intentions. Sometimes it takes feeling the emotions despair and victimisation to understand free will, others free will.

To truly recognise and know that love is something we feel within, not for another, or from another, or for god even. Just to feel it for our own selves. Not from an egotistical point of view.

The greatest gift we give to anyone is our love, because there is nothing we as loving beings wouldn't do for those who we love. But we have to feel love for our selves first before we can truly love another.


The question my friend helped me understand is this...

How do I know that my love for this relative was not harming them. I may have had good intent to wanting them to get better and be happy. But who am I to know what my relative life or soul journey is?

Am I helping or restricting their choice of existence?

Was my love true to them? Because I wanted them to love me back, does that mean my love had conditions.

This relative caused me lots of emotional pain and true despair from their cruelty. It took this much for me to recognise that my love was needy, it had conditions and that true love exist on both side of the dual coin.

Despair or any other Sin is not really a Sin, they are gifts for us to understand that good Vs Evil is here to help us empower our selves and evolve.

On another dimensional level, I feel these sins exists but are not trumatic, we experience them from a different set of existence.
User avatar
Heith
Sodalis
Posts: 2493
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Heith » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:44 am

Nefastos wrote:I find accurate & ingenious the old model of cardinal sins, where the eighth one besides wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony was despair.

Can good things come from despair?
Well, the way I see it, a hardship can either break us or make us explore our potential on a larger scale, if we've the guts to do so. Finnish language has a great word for what I mean by this- sisu- (perseverance is quite close to the meaning, even if the word cannot be translated properly).

so yes, I should think good things can come from despair.
User avatar
Einheri
Frater
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:23 am
Location: Etelä-Savo

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Einheri » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:54 am

Nefastos wrote:
Can good things come from despair?
Am I the only one who finds it amusing that despair is listed in the cardinal sin?
I think that it is just desperation, which can keep the religion even stronger...

I see that desperation can be very inspirational state of mind also.
In my opinion, there are strong black and red aspects, strongly mortification which can lead to very creative and "inspirational" impulse. (For example, in the artistic way.)
Of course, despair can also be very fatal impulse, if someone doesn't 'know-how-to' deal constructively with.
Properly directed, I see despair more positive than negative light.
Despair is in my opinion a lot of potential that can be turned for the benefit (make it more creative...etc).

So yes, good things can come from despair.
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Nefastos » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:19 pm

crow wrote:Am I the only one who finds it amusing that despair is listed in the cardinal sin?
I think that it is just desperation, which can keep the religion even stronger...


If one overcomes it, yes. But despair itself means already losing one's faith in something. Then we can only hope that the thing that was lost was just an outer apparition & not the inner spirit.

If someone has strived for years after some ideal, let's say a certain occult development, and even with tremendous energy put into that thing it still seems to be as distant at it ever was, or even more so, one starts to think if the ideal was ever attainable. Maybe all the work is fruitless, and such an attainment was never meant for himself, or if it's just a mirage in the desert? That's despair, a truly devastating feeling.

I think the four higher & four lower "sins" can be seen as similar, thus:

Sloth >< Despair (lack of energy & inspiration)
Gluttony >< Lust (excess of sensual pleasures)
Pride >< Envy (inability to see oneself neutrally)
Wrath >< Greed (over-energization distorting one's vision of otherness)

They are all forms of energy not flowing harmoniously, but forming like pockets wherein it cannot circulate, eventually creating like a spiritual infection of sorts.

Mera wrote:Despair or any other Sin is not really a Sin, they are gifts for us to understand that good Vs Evil is here to help us empower our selves and evolve.


From the theosophical viewpoint, that is the case.

From the Satanic viewpoint I'd also like to add that there's like a horrible beauty, a fascination, in them (sins). Not by over-rationalizing nor by closing one's eyes from their problems, but by carefully trying to understand them - in a reverence of sorts, even - we can slowly learn how to "breath them in", so to say, "To use them like they want to use you", like it is said in the Voice of Silence.

For if it is I who use this despair to create something, perhaps a more lasting & healthy world view (by breaking apart from some wrong idea) or a piece of spiritual art, it is no longer despair at all, but has been transmuted into energy again. That's the beauty of the Left Hand Path: we do not need to kill sins, but to understand their fundamental power & bring them back into that source of power.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Mera
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:43 am

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Mera » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:39 pm

I understand what you mean regarding 'a horrible beauty', from a satanic point of view.

I sense from this avenue there is a path to 'a living consciousness'. I saw something like this in a vision once, It's like when someone goes so numb to physical effects of the sins that the pain transforms like you said, a stair case to consciousness and sees 'existence' as moving light and energy. I sense from that view point everything which affected the individual becomes like an emotion of flower petals on the skin to the point that even the feel of flowers becomes like touches of energy which the individual simply brushes off. At this point the individual living consciousness becomes so amazingly aware and so high in vibration that the acts are no longer a cause for concern.

Do you think the cardinal sins are natural attributes of humanity rather than something created by Lucifer?

I am sorry if this is a premature question,

In satanism does it mean, practitioners don't actually go out committing acts of suffering but rather seek to understand them?
User avatar
Insanus
Frater
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:06 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Insanus » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:35 pm

Nefastos wrote:
If someone has strived for years after some ideal, let's say a certain occult development, and even with tremendous energy put into that thing it still seems to be as distant at it ever was, or even more so, one starts to think if the ideal was ever attainable. Maybe all the work is fruitless, and such an attainment was never meant for himself, or if it's just a mirage in the desert? That's despair, a truly devastating feeling.
A truly blissful devastation sometimes, though.
There is certain bliss in going towards that mirage believing (or even just pretending to believe)
it's real & another kind of bliss in seeing it's nothing but an illusion.
It's a tragedy that can't be avoided. Who wants to avoid it? The realization that one is really trapped in a desert, or in a room full of mirrors: it is pure horror & joy at the same time.

Red-Black-mortification was already mentioned
Reminds me of these lines:
"The apparition of two faces in disgust
Invisible, but yet so clear
Reflections seen by a fugitive
trying to escape the looking-glass
Blood runs from the open wounds of false flesh
The one in front of the mirror exceeds the image
Eager to leave further but chained still
"

-Dimmu Borgir - Hybrid Stigmata

How about combining these cardinal sins in balancing ways?
For example, combining greed + despair, lust + envy, wrath + sloth, pride + gluttony.
One could find intense motivation to develop, erotic beauty, emotional groundedness & refined rapture?
Myrkky sattuu siihen jolla on haava.
User avatar
Jiva
Frater
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:13 am

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Jiva » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:29 am

Pairing the eight sins is a really ingenious thing to do, particularly in relation to Jung's definition of the libido. Both of yours make a certain amount of sense to me, although kind of in line with Insanus' I personally view despair on its own as a motivation to develop, although it took many years for me to even begin considering it in this way. I found being depressed energising, but solely used it as a means to basically torture myself up until my late teens. Even then, if whatever goal I was monomaniacal in aiming for was somehow removed or made impossible I would basically be devastated.
'Oh Krishna, restless and overpowering, this mind is overwhelmingly strong; I think we might as easily gain control over the wind as over this.'
Mera
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:43 am

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Mera » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:53 am

I very much enjoyed reading everyone comments..
Insanus wrote:How about combining these cardinal sins in balancing ways?
For example, combining greed + despair, lust + envy, wrath + sloth, pride + gluttony.
One could find intense motivation to develop, erotic beauty, emotional groundedness & refined rapture?
Hi Insanus, I learnt that balancing is good solid means for grounding and enables the spiritual seeker to be level headed in their seeking. I found that balancing is just one of the parts to arriving to breaking free from duality, or merging with duality. I haven't yet arrived to an understanding whether duality needs to be broken free from or merged with. I am still moving in motion with this and haven't made up my mind about it yet. The cardinal sins are the opposites of the ten commandments. (I think) so therefore they are part of understanding the school of duality. At least this is how I am understanding these things.
User avatar
Sebomai
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:25 am

Re: Despair - A Blessing of Satan

Postby Sebomai » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:54 am

I really liked reading everyone's thoughts. My own take on despair's place in my life is that it has been a very positive thing in the long run, just as positive in the long run as it was crippling, destructive, and terrible in the short run. Many of my earlier problems with despair came about from the fact that I felt it was not an option to continue living in despair. Thus, I wanted to die, and actually made the attempt to do so. Obviously I survived, and whether there was a greater reason for me surviving is not the point of this. But when I did survive, I asked myself if despair truly meant one had to die. I turned it around and attempted to find within despair itself reasons to keep on living. I released my former ideals and my pursuit of them and turned inwards, realizing that as long as I was alive, that I could always count on whatever was inside of me. I found sustenance there and, eventually, I found other ideals that it now seems are more true to my own heart's desires than the old ones that perished and I left behind. So despair has had a profoundly positive impact on my life, however, if that despair had actually succeeded in ending my earthly existence, who knows what road my spirit would now be on.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest