Pride

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
Sothoth
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Pride

Postby Sothoth » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:20 pm

Herein we can discuss about pride which is an important topic to ponder for us satanists. What kind of pride do you see as a positive force, and what is the line where it becomes destructive in a violent way? I have not succeeded in answering this question, and this has been a very painful question as it is the question of your own true Self. What actually is the true essence of your self; it isn't clearly only your own body although we are painfully chained in it.

The mystery of absolute is so majestic that we can not only follow familiar paths, for those familiar ways represent only one aspect of it. Satan brings forth actively the completeness of truth, which any dogmatical system can ever reach. Therefore we have destroy the old narrow world and create a better one. As larvae we break the chains of our pupas to become adult butterflies. In this the problem of pride arises. Sometimes I feel it is an impossible question to answer but the most important thing is to TRY.
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Nefastos
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Re: Pride

Postby Nefastos » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:49 pm

Yes, that is a great question. There are many ways of seeing pride, both constructive and regressive, intelligent and foolish.

I'd say that there is no pride disconnected from its polar opposite, but these things always go together. Depending on what we mean by "pride", that opposite is either shame or humility.

If I think that *I* am better and more important than others, those thoughts are bound to one-sidedness in values; to a lack of perspective. That kind of false pride always has subconscious shame in it, because on some deeper level my innermost mind (or Ego, Lucifer in me) knows the scale better.

But if I think that I am a great person when I am trying my best, living my life in its fullest (in spiritual way), using my talents with my best ability, and as such I am worthy - that is a different thing altogether. Of course I must love myself, or I am just a hypocrite, projecting my ideals to some distant image of god, hero, satan or whatever. Everyone is a best and, in a way, the only simulacrum (likeness) of God to oneself.

Much of the problem lies with Christian tradition, of course, which in its turn is based on ancient Greek problem of hubris meeting another Jewish problem of theological & psychological guilt. It is no marvel our very word of pride has multiple contradictory meanings.

The real Luciferian pride includes - and demands - the possibility of even greater development to be understood, and that is already a seed of humility. Without that yearning for greater development, the self appreciation becomes stagnant. To think oneself as already knowing, one can't learn more. So, humility is necessary for real occult growth. Lessons can be gained from surprising sources, but the proud will overlook all but those sources they already know of. That will greatly diminish a person, and eventually lead to one's fall.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Wyrmfang
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Re: Pride

Postby Wyrmfang » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:57 pm

A very deep question indeed. I think this is the essential thought:
Nefastos wrote:
I'd say that there is no pride disconnected from its polar opposite, but these things always go together. Depending on what we mean by "pride", that opposite is either shame or humility.
Many people understand that there is "right kind of pride" (knowing yourself, knowing your value & rights etc.) and "wrong kind of pride" (selfishness, arrogancy etc.). Yet this is too simple. The difference between these "two kinds of pride" is not always visible and clear, not even to anyone himself.

Without the differentiating principle in whole nature, there would not be any real life. Life is order, unity, whole. Yet there operates a chaotic principle, which alone makes life living. Without it "life" would be a mere formula for life. Why everything is not already absoluty unity? Why there has to be differentiation, which must strive for unity? We cannot answer.

I think pride is essentially this differentiating principle in man. The difference between right and wrong pride is very subtle. It is about the subordination of these principles (difference and unity).
The individuality does not vanish when it is subordinated under the whole of the world. Actually a total individuality is impossible, it is a confused idea, not reality. We cannot create anything which is not created from material that already exists.

Nefastos already said that psychologically the wrong kind of pride is in reality shame. In my terminology above, the wrong kind of pride is the desperate attempt to subordinate the whole under the differentiating principle. The more intense the will is the more is the result ankward. And the knowledge of this (at least unconscious knowledge) results to shame.
Fomalhaut
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Re: Pride

Postby Fomalhaut » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:01 pm

Nefastos wrote:

The real Luciferian pride includes - and demands - the possibility of even greater development to be understood, and that is already a seed of humility. Without that yearning for greater development, the self appreciation becomes stagnant. To think oneself as already knowing, one can't learn more. So, humility is necessary for real occult growth. Lessons can be gained from surprising sources, but the proud will overlook all but those sources they already know of. That will greatly diminish a person, and eventually lead to one's fall.
I think Frater Nefastos made a very important point in here. In our Work, one should be in self-realization of the fact that we are all students and there is everlasting knowledge in life to develop one's himself/herself.
"I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become."
— C.G. Jung
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Tlazoltecuhtli
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Re: Pride

Postby Tlazoltecuhtli » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:51 am

One can walk toward perfection only when willing to acknowledge both imperfection and incompleteness. Along the path we will come across Truth, but Truth wont manifest itself in us unless we allow it to transform us. This transformation can't occur when we are blinded by pride.

Truth can come in many ways, sometimes it comes canned and ready to eat in books, but Truth also lies on the eye of our beholders, Manifesting itself on the criticism that they give out. When pride is in excess we see these criticism as wrong, we close our ears to it, an this leads to stagnation. On the other hand, when we are lacking in pride we shift ourselves all the time just to accomodate the every whim of those around us. Only when pride is in balance can we analyze criticism in a rational way.

When out of order, pride may also lead to alienation and, on extreme cases, solipsism. Even if the path of satanism is about individuality, we must recognize that we need of other people. We may think that we can coerce everyone around us to get things going our way every single time. But the best way to get help is when we have seeded love in those around us, as only then will their gifts be without poison. In order to love our fellow men, we need to be able to shift ever so slightly in those things that dont hinder us and yet lead to a life of harmony. Service for those we love shouldn't be seen as an act of weakness, as these practices of humility lead to perspective, and perspective is something very easy to lose once we advance further along the path of Set.
Necrosophiacos
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Re: Pride

Postby Necrosophiacos » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:50 am

"Perfection, to be fully such, must be born out of imperfection, the incorruptible must grow out of the
corruptible, having the latter as its vehicle and basis and contrast"-H.P. Blatvasky
The Secret Doctrine , Volume 2, Page 100
Setheh
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Re: Pride

Postby Setheh » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:23 pm

To swallow the pride for me means to be able to deal with it in the way that will be progressive not making anyone standing in the one and the same place for all times because this is what a pride does and it is not negative, not at all, what I mean is that I am not leaning on it and I continue my progress naturaly because being most natural is for me most worth of the pride but the pride that is not the pride of the person who cannot find himself / herself in this world and aspecially concerning the spirituality and the inner growth, I do not emanate with a pride and I am natural that's what make sme glad and worth to strive for and be beyond ego and of course those who overcame the ego and understand what is the true pride while experiencing it so richly countless times can recognize it and accept it as I do and am not perfect but I always work on myself and to be free from any kind of burdens.

Greetings.
Mysterium Serpentiam

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