"Breaking and Entering"

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
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Nefastos
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"Breaking and Entering"

Post by Nefastos »

I was just visiting a nearby park of Tähtitorninmäki ("Observatory Hill") to let my too cloistered crystal ball to catch the rays of the eclipse Sun. When strolling back through the park, carrying the item I am personally fond of (the beautiful full sphere of the translucent rock crystal seems like a close to perfect union of polarities to me), I thought about how I'd feel should I accidentally drop the orb and break it, clumsy as I am. To my amazement, what I felt was uplifting interest and happiness: to see how the sphere would break, and how to use the shards afterward, seemed like some sacred form of haruspicy. To see also the broken and inside state of that which was perfect in its wholenessness just before.

I think such fascination is something actually quite common to Satanism, Azazelianism, and black magic (both in its ascending and descending forms). To find something new & uplifting in things that are usually thought to be just a discard of something else. To find meaning from a blemish or death's process of transmutation.

To me, such a possibility of entering (into something else) by breaking something (that seemed to be a ready state) has come available mainly from attempts of making art & ritual. Things that seem to go weird ways and demand chnges in the process curiously often become the best parts of the final outcome. There is a deep occult teaching in this, something akin to the often quoted John 12:24.

What are your thoughts on this matter, brethren & dear guests?
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Kavi
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm I was just visiting a nearby park of Tähtitorninmäki ("Observatory Hill") to let my too cloistered crystal ball to catch the rays of the eclipse Sun. When strolling back through the park, carrying the item I am personally fond of (the beautiful full sphere of the translucent rock crystal seems like a close to perfect union of polarities to me), I thought about how I'd feel should I accidentally drop the orb and break it, clumsy as I am. To my amazement, what I felt was uplifting interest and happiness: to see how the sphere would break, and how to use the shards afterward, seemed like some sacred form of haruspicy. To see also the broken and inside state of that which was perfect in its wholenessness just before.

I think such fascination is something actually quite common to Satanism, Azazelianism, and black magic (both in its ascending and descending forms). To find something new & uplifting in things that are usually thought to be just a discard of something else. To find meaning from a blemish or death's process of transmutation.

To me, such a possibility of entering (into something else) by breaking something (that seemed to be a ready state) has come available mainly from attempts of making art & ritual. Things that seem to go weird ways and demand chnges in the process curiously often become the best parts of the final outcome. There is a deep occult teaching in this, something akin to the often quoted John 12:24.

What are your thoughts on this matter, brethren & dear guests?
Isn't it amazing that while we (presumably most part) wish to become better at something, become good and excel, yet we fear it because it means we contemplate ourselves and are willing to put our most flawed parts under inspection?
Fear that the whole shall be broken apart, meaning the refusal that anything can break into separate pieces, doesn't it sometimes point towards that this is exactly so. That what seemed to be whole and perfect was not so?
That even object could become something of its own and is not eternally unchangeable?

I think there is another biblical passage in New Testament used both by Schelling and Kierkegaard:
"What you keep you lose and what you lose you will be given."
Now we could think why desert is such a powerful context, there is nothing except sometimes one might find Satan.
Here I am thinking of three temptations and passage above. (Please, caution with interpretation; I do not mean the logic of prosperity theology)

"No pain, no gain" was once common gym saying.
I guess breaking something means growth and also releasing the life from it in such way that it's possible for entering. This is why we are able to live anyway. I guess this is possible in very twisted way too.
I think in all learning process something is broken, deconstructed too. While putting pieces back together it's not "whole" in similar way that it used to be.
I guess we could think of yet another saying: "Solve et coagula"?

EDIT: Also what I was trying to point out was the anxiety of existence but also one could think of Tzimtzum (Where the breaking and fragments are concealed yet scared of it) and emanation.
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Nefastos
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

Post by Nefastos »

Kavi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:28 pmIsn't it amazing that while we (presumably most part) wish to become better at something, become good and excel, yet we fear it because it means we contemplate ourselves and are willing to put our most flawed parts under inspection?
Fear that the whole shall be broken apart, meaning the refusal that anything can break into separate pieces, doesn't it sometimes point towards that this is exactly so. That what seemed to be whole and perfect was not so?

It is both amazing and also understandable. For a profane person, it would be foolish to shift one's attention from the healthy solidity to one's flaws. Animal, also the human animal, does not live to cease what it was and become something else altogether: it seeks to excel in the exact way it was born. This is the great dividing line between occultism & profane life.

Kavi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:28 pm"What you keep you lose and what you lose you will be given."
Now we could think why desert is such a powerful context, there is nothing except sometimes one might find Satan.
Here I am thinking of three temptations and passage above. (Please, caution with interpretation; I do not mean the logic of prosperity theology)

You mean that because the symbolical desert asks so much of us (to give up our whole old egotistic self, practically) it also fills us up with its "Satanic" spirit of otherness-in-self?

Kavi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:28 pmI guess we could think of yet another saying: "Solve et coagula"?

Yes, I think so too. Esotericism is spherical (round) whereas exotericism is linear. The latter is in delusion that evolution can work like an arrow, moving eternally onwards in a straight line, but occultists are in opinion that in order to advance, one must be able to use the materials from one's past; practically, to take oneself apart and find the "point of origin" over and over again. [Eliade] and Ouroboros rather than the Olympics and conquistadores, so to say. It becomes a magical tale not unlike baron von Munchausen's, who can keep going with a bridge that he builds up to the direction he's going while taking the materials from the part behind him. It is this paradox of the Argos ship (is it still the same ship when all the parts have been replaced one at the time?) which give Buddhists their peculiar idea that the soul itself does not even exist. Our individuality is in perpetual shape of paradoxal non-being, eternal emergence.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

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The thought of your orb shattering actually put a pang of anxiety into my heart. It must be that pesky perfectionism I'm working so hard to kill, but I have a very hard time coming around to the idea of beauty and growth coming from something that was whole that was then broken. I think oftentimes strength grows from broken things (people, especially, if they manage to harness that brokenness into strength instead), much the same way people or things bounce back from failure in often surprising ways; however, most of those instances in my mind require a process of healing or fixing in order to become strong again, and they definitely aren't acts of deliberate brokenness, but moreso a response to something happening outside of one's control. To drop an orb like that, have it shatter, and go, "hmm, yes. How can I interpret this into something I can use," is just outside of my personal scope of ability. At least at the moment. I like the think I'm getting better.

If I were holding the orb and tripped (because I am also clumsy) it would mostly go like this:
1) Stare at it in shock
2) Cry unconsolably at how clumsy and at the loss of my orb
3) Probably try to fix it, most likely fail
4) Eventually, with time, come around to the idea the pieces are still usable in other ways. This would not be an instantaneous thing though.

*Edit: It looks like I'm saying I can't see beauty and growth coming from broken things, but that's not what I meant. Beauty can indeed come from broken things, but what I was trying to say is that I put too much emphasis on the beauty of things before they get broken*
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

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Polyhymnia wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:07 amThe thought of your orb shattering actually put a pang of anxiety into my heart. It must be that pesky perfectionism I'm working so hard to kill, but I have a very hard time coming around to the idea of beauty and growth coming from something that was whole that was then broken.

Les extrêmes se touchent: the reason for my formulation of the "philosophy of perdition," which became the philosophy of SoA, was that because I am so extremely neurotic that literally everything feels like the universe is breaking down. Everything is flawed, everything creates anguish, no minute is free from inner pain. As early as a teenager I mockingly wrote to my diary that it is indeed funny when someone (me) is afraid that birds might fall from sky unless he is somehow holding them up. One can easily see how such an anguish connects both to (a) Luciferian pride and (b) motherly feelings towards the whole existence (Bodhisattva idealism). And when one has to deal with such feelings all the time, it becomes obvious how such an inherent Flaw becomes the key concept through which the universe must be studied: Satan. This creates the ultimate paradox, where everything is perfect as it is (because it is, on a cosmological level, just thus), and at the same time everything is intolerably wrong: the life itself is this breaking of the seed, breaking (of abstract perfection) which creates entering (into the manifestation as we see it).
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Smaragd
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

Post by Smaragd »

Nefastos wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm
To me, such a possibility of entering (into something else) by breaking something (that seemed to be a ready state) has come available mainly from attempts of making art & ritual. Things that seem to go weird ways and demand chnges in the process curiously often become the best parts of the final outcome. There is a deep occult teaching in this, something akin to the often quoted John 12:24.

What are your thoughts on this matter, brethren & dear guests?
There is often this terrible feeling of imprisonment to me if something like this doesn’t happen when I’m doing some more elaborate magical working. It’s like the surface of water turned in to stone by the powers of Saturn couldn’t be overcome and one is seized (cf. Sanscrit words of graha & grahinis). The shattering might be simply just an appearance of a woodpecker on the planned ritual grounds, something that will break the expected petrified surface of reality.
Nefastos wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm to see how the sphere would break, and how to use the shards afterward, seemed like some sacred form of haruspicy
It just happened that I came back to the topic ’Subtitutes for Blood Sacrifice’ when the topic at hand appeared, and the idea there of linga sharîra of the greatest adept shattered in to the world as seeds that can be cultivated by anyone. This and the clear crystal sphere shattering ofcourse reminded of each other and it made me wonder if the kind of sacred haruspicy could be used to seek direction for cultivating the seed or first of all realizing what it is in oneself and in the world that draws traces for the conscious mind to more and more realize the seed in ones own being.

Couple steps forth from these ideas and every wound and every shattering can be seen as the stigmata – the bleeding reality, and every single specific wound (with its own ”insides” and its own ”animal” sacrifice), a point of divination where can be inspected the path by which the emanation of the bleeding wound is turned in to remanation of the ascending strive.

I’m also reminded of John 20:24-29, where doubting Thomas is not willing to acknowledge the miracle of resurrected Jesus appearing for the disciples, and thus he necessitates the ”(breaking) and entering” while at the same time creating in himself a mirror image of the archetypal wound he then has to suffer through. There are two sides to this: first Thomas misses the flight of belief & philosophy – the foreseeing eye – which would have seen most if not all the snares beforehand and thus being able to continue without the extra suffering of the mirrored wound, but if such siddhi – an aspect of philosophical genius or connection to ”the third eye” has not been granted yet with sufficient degree, then the doubt and curse of Thomas is indeed one that will ultimately, given that further snares of the Goddess/Satan is succesfully dodged, lead to the boon of the philosophical genius. Thomas goes to the wound and sees for what it is, similarly as the aspirant of the occult has to see through the wounds in one’s psyche and the wounds beyond oneself to know and then learn use belief as a kind of sonar to the rest of the yet unilluminated darkness ahead. This process of belief and flight could be seen as active partaking of the divinatory powers that flow through these greater or smaller wounds. Such partaking of the nectars could be seen as seeking blood drunkness where the drunkness is not mere possession and mediumism, but taken as one aspect – an aspect of mysticism – of the whole.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
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Soror O
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

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Yup, for anything to be born, something must be broken. So like you folks referred, that is (also) why "anquish" and "pain" is inherent in existence. I was thinking of actual flowers and trees, timelapse footage of sprouts breaking through seeds, flowers breaking through buds. It is kind of brutal, sacred violence*. Like the fetus who breakes through the fetal membrane, then the birth canal, then the vulva. Breaking the flesh with every inch that it travels into the light.

This is all well understood. But what about the breaking that comes along due to our human flawlessness, our clumsyness - spiritual or physical? I don't see the difference, really. How could we be different from flowers and trees? In all that is, there is the seed or the egg and the ugly birthing of something. And if one likes to grow roses, one has to plant rose seeds and water them properly. (This was a simplified version - or was it?)

A certain song came to my mind. I sang it in the church choir. It is called "Saviruukku" (The Clay Pot)

Saviruukku

Olen särkynyt saviruukku
Pala palalta murtui pois
Vain ihmettelin ja itkin
En millään murtunut ois
Sinä Herra minut murskasit
Vaan talletit kaikki palat
Niin paljon minua rakastit
Tahdoit uutta kokonaan
Anna savelle uusi muoto
Tee minusta uusi ruukku
Niin rakkautesi nyt näytät
Taas murtunutta käytät
Tahdon kertoa särkyneille
Ei siruja heitetä pois
Kallista halpa savikin
Mestarin kädessä ois


The narrator refers himself as a broken clay pot, which the Lord/ the Master has broken. It is implied that the Master has deliberately broken him in order to build him up. This vibrates the Sadomasocistic Christian ethos, nothing new here really. But it is still quite lovely. It is said that the Master operates, not with the intact being, but with the being that is broken and violated. And even more so: the mastermind behind the violation and the horror of brokeness is the Master himself.

*Violence is hardly the correct word here, as it refers to excess use of force. But the word is still in its place here, maybe because it reminds me of violets.
If you want to reborn, let yourself die.
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Nefastos
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

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Soror O wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:59 pmThe narrator refers himself as a broken clay pot, which the Lord/ the Master has broken. It is implied that the Master has deliberately broken him in order to build him up. This vibrates the Sadomasocistic Christian ethos, nothing new here really.

Yes, this is an old Biblical symbol.

Psalm 2 wrote:Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.


It is used several times both in the Old and the New Testament, and Händel took it into his Messiah: "Thou Shalt Break Them."

I find the Psalm quote both interesting & funny. Interesting, because our dear Satan-God here instills people with the same trembling (Sanskr. spanda) that is so important to a Shaiva mystic. Funny, because "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision" is so great way to see how God acts, especially since the one we usually meet in the lame Protestant churches "is love." At least in name.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Kavi
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:17 am
Kavi wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:28 pm"What you keep you lose and what you lose you will be given."
Now we could think why desert is such a powerful context, there is nothing except sometimes one might find Satan.
Here I am thinking of three temptations and passage above. (Please, caution with interpretation; I do not mean the logic of prosperity theology)

You mean that because the symbolical desert asks so much of us (to give up our whole old egotistic self, practically) it also fills us up with its "Satanic" spirit of otherness-in-self?
Yes I think in this way, at least there are some anecdotes or stories throughout judeoislamochristian traditions starting from Christ and Desert Fathers to poems about "black stream in desert that will end to image of Iblis crying on a rock".
I guess it's some form of otherness that is cast out as if it were nothing, or treated as it didn't exist - fullness concealed. Life exiled into peripheries, outside the villages and city, if you will.
I don't know the implications or consequences in this form of thinking and if it is actually the most common form of thinking of symbolical desert, but at least I think along the lines yes.

I mean - it asks so much of us because everything else were already given. Before we are born our identity already starts molding - we gain from others but desert asks so much too - what is it worth to keep hold on to old egotistic self?

I think Jesus's temptations of bargaining from principles in order to gain status or "you don't have to suffer, just let it go away, you are a hungry human" are so deeply human temptations that it's easy to not view them as temptations.
I think in contemporary world this form of satanism, reversing the temptations into virtues is common. Maybe it always has been?

I did inverse trick here too, when Satan is teasing it's almost like it's about something beyond, ironic suggestions than just what the adversary is saying.
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Nefastos
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Re: "Breaking and Entering"

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Kavi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:20 pmI think Jesus's temptations of bargaining from principles in order to gain status or "you don't have to suffer, just let it go away, you are a hungry human" are so deeply human temptations that it's easy to not view them as temptations.
I think in contemporary world this form of satanism, reversing the temptations into virtues is common. Maybe it always has been?

Dostoevsky: Grand Inquisitor (in Brothers Karamazov) wrote:"'The terrible and wise spirit, the spirit of self annihilation and non-being,' goes on the Inquisitor, 'the great spirit of negation conversed with Thee in the wilderness, and we are told that he "tempted" Thee... Was it so? And if it were so, then it is impossible to utter anything more truthful than what is contained in his three offers, which Thou didst reject, and which are usually called "temptations." Yea; if ever there was on earth a genuine striking wonder produced, it was on that day of Thy three temptations, and it is precisely in these three short sentences that the marvelous miracle is contained. If it were possible that they should vanish and disappear for ever, without leaving any trace, from the record and from the memory of man, and that it should become necessary again to devise, invent, and make them reappear in Thy history once more, thinkest Thou that all the world's sages, all the legislators, initiates, philosophers and thinkers, if called upon to frame three questions which should, like these, besides answering the magnitude of the event, express in three short sentences the whole future history of this our world and of mankind—dost Thou believe, I ask Thee, that all their combined efforts could ever create anything equal in power and depth of thought to the three propositions offered Thee by the powerful and all-wise spirit in the wilderness? Judging of them by their marvelous aptness alone, one can at once perceive that they emanated not from a finite, terrestrial intellect, but indeed, from the Eternal and the Absolute. In these three offers we find, blended into one and foretold to us, the complete subsequent history of man; we are shown three images, so to say, uniting in them all the future axiomatic, insoluble problems and contradictions of human nature, the world over. In those days, the wondrous wisdom contained in them was not made so apparent as it is now, for futurity remained still veiled; but now, when fifteen centuries have elapsed, we see that everything in these three questions is so marvelously foreseen and foretold, that to add to, or to take away from, the prophecy one jot, would be absolutely impossible!

"'Decide then thyself.' sternly proceeded the Inquisitor, 'which of ye twain was right: Thou who didst reject, or he who offered? Remember the subtle meaning of question the first, which runs thus: Wouldst Thou go into the world empty-handed? Would Thou venture thither with Thy vague and undefined promise of freedom, which men, dull and unruly as they are by nature, are unable so much as to understand, which they avoid and fear?—for never was there anything more unbearable to the human race than personal freedom! Dost Thou see these stones in the desolate and glaring wilderness? Command that these stones be made bread—and mankind will run after Thee, obedient and grateful like a herd of cattle.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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