Pacifism

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
Wyrmfang
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Re: Pacifism

Post by Wyrmfang »

Cancer wrote:
Insanus wrote:That's why pacifism (IMO) shouldn't be understood as nonviolence, but as activity towards the lessening of suffering.
A very important point here; I agree on this definition.
I too would define pacifism this way. The view has actually changed very much even within our Western culture what counts as violence. For example physical punishing of children was long conceived as a duty. Today it´s illegal (in Finland), and majority of parents luckily also agree that it is violence in the spiritual situation of our present society. What ultimately is wrong with violence? Only the fact that it causes suffering. Even I - a relatively shy and withdrawn person - have voluntarily participated in a bare knuckle martial arts match. I does not feel like violence at all, even if someone else would feel completely differently.

Still most people conceive pacifism as unrealistic and something negative. I think this is because they think "of course everyone wants to minimize suffering - pacifists are just naive in that". However, the case is that only a pacifist consistently wills that goal (even if there are also lots of "false pacifists"). Someone who claims pacifism is unrealistic usually (1) doesn´t make actual personal sacrifices for peace (the level of will/atma), (2) doesn´t keep the positive ideal of love in his mind but rather falls to misanthropy when this ideal seems not to realize (the level of love/buddhi), (3) doesn´t think consistently what finally would help to realize the ideal but is satisfied with easy and too straightforwards goals (the level of intelligence/manas).
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LunaticSun
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Re: Pacifism

Post by LunaticSun »

This might be some sort of necroposting but...
Some personal experience analysis that might contribute to discussion : within last month got bitten by dogs twice.

1st occasion - a guarding dog was barking, I was standing still (cos there was ice all around) and trying to pacify it with calm voice. It bit my leg lightly and fled to do its natural businesses. The security guard was just as immobilised as I was and kept calling the dog back. So - all of this was in vain.
Cons: I got bitten, I got worried cos 'what if rabiessss'. I had to visit hospital which is but a represantation of hell on earth here.
Pros: it turned out I missed some vaccinations that I was supposed to get a year ago, and I certainly wouldn't have gotten them if I were not bitten by the dog.

2nd occasion - other place, other guarding dog, no guard this time. Used the same peaceful approach. This time the bite was worse lol.
Cons: yet another bite and disappointment in dogs' intellectual/linguistic abilities.
Pros: yet another disappointment in my own intellectual abilities, 'cos it was another sign that I don't learn from what I experience. I could have stomped and roared probably to scare it off, all I needed was a short while to call mom so she'd open the gate. But almost always I feel like some 'tis just a boulder' from SpongeBob. A stagnant, as if already non-living, matter that just seeks its place to settle and mix with the surrounding.
The 2nd occasion is yet another proof of my inability to learn, but it also chalenged me to put pause in some romantic relationship and consciously handle own development for the sake of improving that relationship, and for the sake of myself (or rather something beyond self).

(Boy, do my references to SpongeBob contribute well to this topic xD) Seriously though, it is hard to predict what leads to what... (maybe boulders are a fine alternative to cars in Bikini Bottom) maybe pacifism will be more practically possible some day, but more likely - just don't be violent, yet unshackle your inner self and be energetic enough to express yourself to the outside. Make your existence noticed so noone steps onto or bites you. Let's stop being living boulders together :, ( (unless it is only my problem lol sorry then)
Kavi
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Re: Pacifism

Post by Kavi »

LunaticSun wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:03 pm (Boy, do my references to SpongeBob contribute well to this topic xD) Seriously though, it is hard to predict what leads to what... (maybe boulders are a fine alternative to cars in Bikini Bottom) maybe pacifism will be more practically possible some day, but more likely - just don't be violent, yet unshackle your inner self and be energetic enough to express yourself to the outside. Make your existence noticed so noone steps onto or bites you. Let's stop being living boulders together :, ( (unless it is only my problem lol sorry then)
I think in pacifism there is a lot of different colors and shapes. I think in world there is sometimes a must to show to other people one's limits and boundaries so people don't step on you. Maybe dogs even think it like this and maybe their boundaries were not respected earlier and it is why the behave now as they do?
Even Gandhi's non-violence and protest acts can be seen as violence in it's broad definition. I think there is no way possible for any living being to avoid violence or threat of it. Yet it would be a bit cheeky to say that hurting others is at same level of violence as monthly rent. But due to karmic results, skipping one rent bill can cause people to end up living on streets and so on...
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Kavi
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Re: Pacifism

Post by Kavi »

I wanted to state also that there is choice always present and agency among individuals, yet I would want to see this broadening in bigger cultural areas as well.
7&8
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