Seal of the languages

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
User avatar
Posts: 3674
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Nefastos »

A close person just expressed personal frustration to me because of the lack of understanding of the occult "language" of symbol associations, even though being extremely adept in many different languages. In cases like this, the stress of the brain is on the formal side (kâma manas), which has become a partial defence system against the freer and therefore more terrifying flight through the "abyss" of buddhi-manas. Regardless of this, I am siding with the idea that more we understand about different language, the less we remain blind to our own language's absoluteness. Different ways of saying the (apparently) same thing become more & more clear when we notice that actually with the language the whole world turns to a different angle.

One of the little daily humility practices for me is this use of English language... I consider myself as an expert in making different nuances available for both the reader and her subconscious in my mother language (breaking the conventional rules being among the ways this is done), so it is humbling to see myself as an infant when trying to make sense in metaphysical, or really any demanding context in English language.

Malja wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:40 pm
Why would latin, sankrit or tibetan be a better choice of language for prayers and mantras than your native language?

Well, there are several possible reasons. First, just like it is with the names of deities or spirits, no two words have exactly the same meaning. The fact that different words are comprised of different letters & different rhythm make them different by associations and, therefore, of magical practice. Like brother Kavi just mentioned about "skripka". All the words violin, viulu and skripka will bring to mind the same instrument, but there are deeper layers in mind and magic than just the plain first layer. If that wouldn't be so, magic wouldn't have much use: it would be just very profane machine of clipped meanings without echoes or inner energies rolling on deeper into the world of spirits or dynamics outside our own waking consciousness. Also, there is the actual benefit of not fully understanding the words intuitively; they remain in the part of the brain that connects more to the subconscious and astral side, which makes possible that freer flight mentioned above. But of course magic (including prayer) can be used in several different ways. Would that not be so, I wouldn't have included Finnish versions of the brotherhood hymnal in the Azazelin Avain.

Speaking of the practical magic nuances in languages, I consider guttural & consonant-heavy languages like Hebrew or Russian great for goetic or "black theurgic" practices, while the vocal-rich prayers are known from the gnostic texts to be of the ascending character. Sanskrit is weird because in a way it has both of these possibilities: its use of consonants and their combinations can be heavy, but it can use vocals in a very airy and spatial way. (I think this also makes Finnish language quite "black", because of our long & bulky words with cumbersome consonant brickwalls.)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
User avatar
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:06 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Insanus »

obnoxion wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:45 am
I have been thinking about the charm of latin. I read that the ancient Rome represents the last era when culturally everything that ever was, was still present in some form. In this way, Christianity is the great destroyer. And hasn't this been used as a valid argument against it?

But also, latin is among the things that Christinity actually preserved; even more than that, it preserved its sacrality. So in this manner, latin is the language of the collectively ancient; and for the Western world, collectively subconscious. Yet simultaneously, it is the adopted language of the great destroyer and the great redeemer, the Catholic Christianity.

Now, as especially Catholicism is, I claim, submerging in the magical underworld of the ancients, it is aquiring more and more of the sinister aura of that world. But a few hundred years back it was still the common language of rationality and light, and that is where the contrast becomes more stressed. But still I feel it forms a lifeline to the deep layers of the ancient past, both inner and outer. And that is one reason I feel it is a very suitable language for praying.
This is probably a reason why I'm personally fascinated by french language. It's like ghetto-latin, or latin "for the people". I feel like the whole feel of our prayers would turn into something more blasphemous and black mass-ish if the latin parts were just translated to french.
Myrkky sattuu siihen jolla on haava.
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Re: Seal of the languages

Post by obnoxion »

Insanus wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:26 pm
I'm personally fascinated by french language. It's like ghetto-latin, or latin "for the people". I feel like the whole feel of our prayers would turn into something more blasphemous and black mass-ish if the latin parts were just translated to french.
I too love french. It has become like a sacred language after immersing myself in the poetry of Baudelaire and Mallarme. When I read their poetry, I get that oceanic feeling I get with the Old Testament -- like I will never exhaust these massive expances of subtle meanings.

But I like your idea of "ghetto-latin", too. That french is the language of black masses, of that I was well aware. "The Language of Love and Black Masses" and "Ghetto-Latin" would be good little advertisements for young srudents, trying to figure out which extra language they would want to study...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
User avatar
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 10:31 pm

Re: Seal of the languages

Post by Cerastes »

I‘m a little obsessed with foreign languages even the many ones I do not understand.
Every language has its own magic and opens its own horizon. I believe the way we think and order information is much depended on our native language. There are so many subtle little mechanism of expression and impression that are set and structured by language. A foreign language is a wonderful way to explore Otherness or different ways of thinking.

I almost never use my native language in for any spiritual practice and meanwhile I have different languages for the planetary hymns too. Venus, for example, is totally Frensh, Mars is Spanish, English is Jupiter. Finnish could be good for Saturn, I think. But I can‘t translate it.
German sounds a little too hard and significant for meditative pracitce. But it‘s perfect for Black Metal lyrics with all the rrrr, chhhh and schhhh. :)

Latin is close to Spanish but due to history, it holds various associations and like Obnoxion mentioned, the catholic church played it's part in this. For example, the Malleus maleficarum was written near my birth place. It is the legitimation for the start of the witch burnings in Europe. The way Heinrich Kramer describes how evil women creep into the bedroom of men to steal their penis made me laugh in a bitter way. It is unimaginable that such a ridiculous text was the cause of so many horrible tortures and murders. It was hard, to get this associations out of mind, when using Latin for spiritual work and it took a while.
“Granny Weatherwax was not lost. She wasn't the kind of person who ever became lost. It was just that, at the moment, while she knew exactly where SHE was, she didn't know the position of anywhere else.”
(Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
Post Reply