Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Rational discussions on metaphysical and abstract topics.
User avatar
Boreas
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:49 pm
Location: Kuopio
Contact:

Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Boreas » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:05 pm

I've recently been interested again in angelology and have searched different studies related to it. Some years ago I read from Gornahoor that angels can be compared to the plethora of Heathen gods and the idea has stuck with me since. In this way of thinking the pagan gods are also like messengers and hypostasis of the One supreme principle.

What do you think of the matter? Is there an underlying (septenary?) correspondence to the planetary principles in this schema where the Gods of Paganism refer to metaphysical and cosmological principles in the same way that the angels refer to higher States of Being?

If anyone knows good books, lectures etc. about angelology please Let me know. Fallen angels included. I'm pretty sure there isn't some good book where the comparison between the Gods and angels would be studied esoterically, but that would be super.
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Nefastos » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:19 pm

Yes, I take monotheism & polytheism being just a bit different approaches to the same subject. And since both of these are naturally symbolical, differences between their symbolistic presentations should not be underlined too much. Once again I must say that reading Hindu scriptures helps a lot: every Indian religion claims that its God/dess is the highest, but still the overall doctrine sees not any problem in this. Yes, every one of them is the highest, one approach to the highest, a splendid aspect. Just like Christ and Satan are both similarly "highest" aspects or manifestations of One One in the system that we practice.

Pantheons of divine beings are "angelic" choirs. The word "angel" itself is a bit problematic since it emphasises the monotheistic doctrine: each such spirit, however lofty and divine by itself, simply becomes the "messenger" (angelos) of the divine. This, however, is once again the same doctrine that permeates the system of Hindu schools also: Shakti (Devî; the Goddess Magna Mater) is seen in every being and in every bodily center of every creature, just like Shiva is THE divine spark & dynamic consciousness in everything. Thus every being that actually lives and moves and has its being somewhere, has it in God the Absolute. "There is only one God"...

Speaking of the treatises on angelology, I would personally like to delve deeper in the Celestial Hierarchies of Pseudo-Dionysius. It's the classic behind many a classic. I actually presented it for a reading group here in the forum's Finnish side, but another book got chosen instead.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
obnoxion
Sodalis
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby obnoxion » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:33 pm

In most Afro-Carribian traditions, like Vodou, the Christian saints have correspondences to the loas they serve. That is a very interesting system, and it sort of underlies Catholicism as the most magical form of Christianity. This magical aspect was important reason why so many Decadent poets were fascinated by Catholicism. (The usual path of a Decadent poets was, I recently read: first a decadent atheist, then practicing pagan and finally Catholic convert).

R. Murray Thomas has written a most interesting book on the topic, "The Roots of Haiti's Vodou-Christian Faith" (Praeger, 2014). (And on the off-topic of Decadence, Ellis Hanson's "Decadence and Catholicism" (Harvard University Press, 1998) is quite interesting).
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
User avatar
Boreas
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:49 pm
Location: Kuopio
Contact:

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Boreas » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:40 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:19 pm
Yes, I take monotheism & polytheism being just a bit different approaches to the same subject. And since both of these are naturally symbolical, differences between their symbolistic presentations should not be underlined too much.
In the article I wrote to Hylätty Kivi about monotheism and polytheism there was a quote from Jean Hani in which he stated that monotheism takes its stand from the point of view outside manifestation (only one God) and polytheism that of manifestation (Gods). I guess we can infer from this the wrong directions to which both of these can lead the unwary practitioner, that of one-sided dualistic otherworldliness ("creation was futile") or a kind of profanation and worldliness in which Paganism is seen as a "nature religion" without any sense of transcendence.
Nefastos wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:19 pm
Once again I must say that reading Hindu scriptures helps a lot: every Indian religion claims that its God/dess is the highest, but still the overall doctrine sees not any problem in this. Yes, every one of them is the highest, one approach to the highest, a splendid aspect. Just like Christ and Satan are both similarly "highest" aspects or manifestations of One One in the system that we practice.
I guess this is where the so called henotheism kicks in?
Nefastos wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:19 pm
Yespeaking of the treatises on angelology, I would personally like to delve deeper in the Celestial Hierarchies of Pseudo-Dionysius. It's the classic behind many a classic. I actually presented it for a reading group here in the forum's Finnish side, but another book got chosen instead.
This has been in my ordering list for a while also. Yesterday I found Steiner's Helsinki lectures about angelology.
obnoxion wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:33 pm
In most Afro-Carribian traditions, like Vodou, the Christian saints have correspondences to the entities worshipped. That is a very interesting system, and it sort of underlies Catholicism as the most magical form of Christianity. This magical aspect was important reason why so many Decadent poets were fascinated by Catholicism. (The usual path of a Decadent poets was, I recently read: first a decadent atheist, then practicing pagan and finally Catholic convert).
Although I've never been an atheist, the usual path of the decadent poets seems very close to myself in my search of a vital and living tradition (I frown upon neopagan reconstrutionists.) I could never become a Christian but for some time now I've been fascinated with Catholicism, and a term esoteric catholic pagan is not that far from me.
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
User avatar
Nefastos
Frater
Posts: 3546
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:05 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Nefastos » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:55 pm

Boreas wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:40 pm
I guess this is where the so called henotheism kicks in?

Yes... I suppose henotheism & panentheism are the most correct labels put on my personal preferences. Somehow, though, I feel that these labels are a bit lifeless, and use them seldom. Words like theism and pantheism are more evocative, more demanding so to say, so I use those more. I guess I also prefer slightly archaic terms over the modern. Every form of theology is, after all, unavoidably partial & in need of individual interpretation.

Boreas wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:40 pm
In the article I wrote to Hylätty Kivi about monotheism and polytheism there was a quote from Jean Hani in which he stated that monotheism takes its stand from the point of view outside manifestation (only one God) and polytheism that of manifestation (Gods). I guess we can infer from this the wrong directions to which both of these can lead the unwary practitioner, that of one-sided dualistic otherworldliness ("creation was futile") or a kind of profanation and worldliness in which Paganism is seen as a "nature religion" without any sense of transcendence.

That's why I like to have my monotheism sandwich with polytheism on top, and vice versa. Even though both claim to present an absolute view, they do it in a way that is prone to wrong associations. By they way, we just went through several of your articles in Hylätty Kivi in the last Lucifer lodge meetings, even though the one you referred was not on that list, I think. Instead, Art and Transcendence (HK#2), Reincarnation and Immortality (HK#2), & Individualism, Spiritual and Personal Development (HK#3) were chosen.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
User avatar
Boreas
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:49 pm
Location: Kuopio
Contact:

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Boreas » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:56 pm

Nefastos wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:55 pm
By they way, we just went through several of your articles in Hylätty Kivi in the last Lucifer lodge meetings, even though the one you referred was not on that list, I think. Instead, Art and Transcendence (HK#2), Reincarnation and Immortality (HK#2), & Individualism, Spiritual and Personal Development (HK#3) were chosen.
Ha! I may be a little too self-critical but I look upon my earlier writings as horrible drivel.
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
obnoxion
Sodalis
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby obnoxion » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:07 pm

Boreas wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:56 pm
my earlier writings
Good stuff!
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
User avatar
Boreas
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:49 pm
Location: Kuopio
Contact:

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Boreas » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:49 pm

obnoxion wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:07 pm
Boreas wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:56 pm
my earlier writings
Good stuff!
Thanks Obnoxion! Not that I would refute much I wrote back then but the writings are clearly that of a beginner and there are some lamentable confusions.


Here is the article I referred to in my opening post:

https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=564
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.
User avatar
Boreas
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:49 pm
Location: Kuopio
Contact:

Re: Angelology and the Heathen Gods

Postby Boreas » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:30 pm

I was given a hint of a website and a book that deals with angelology and the seven archangels. Here's the link if anyone's interested: https://sophia.sk/en/kniha/sedem-archanjelov
It is by standing on the shoulders of giants one can reach for the sky.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest