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Valkyrja

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:18 am
by Smaragd
To celebrate the International Women's Day and to seek towards themes otherwise relevant to the current atmosphere of the forum let us seek the meaning of Valkyrie.

I have really narrow understanding and base of knowledge regarding Norse mythology, so please do share what you've come to know the Valkyries as. In addition it would be delightful to hear esoteric interpretations of these entities and their duties.
Wikipedia wrote:In Norse mythology, a valkyrie ("chooser of the slain") is one of a host of female figures who guide souls of the dead to the god Odin's hall Valhalla. There, the deceased warriors become einherjar (Old Norse "single (or once) fighters"). When the einherjar are not preparing for the events of Ragnarök, the valkyries bear them mead. Valkyries also appear as lovers of heroes and other mortals, where they are sometimes described as the daughters of royalty, sometimes accompanied by ravens and sometimes connected to swans or horses.

Re: Valkyrja

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:26 pm
by Kenazis
Nature of Valkyries depends much of the view we take on Odin. For they are Odin's "servants". "Demons to some, angels to others". For example if Odin is seen as God, Valkyries can be seen as angels. If Odin is seen as "evil" demiurge, the valkyries are something you don't want to meet. Also Valhalla is seen as hell instead of heaven. And of course valkyries can be something that doesn't fit in either category. It would be very interesting to read/hear interpretation of these mythologies from people who have been never touched by Christianity and other similar outer influences, but that is impossibility (I mean people who lived on those times).

Re: Valkyrja

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:01 am
by Smaragd
Kenazis wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:26 pm It would be very interesting to read/hear interpretation of these mythologies from people who have been never touched by Christianity and other similar outer influences, but that is impossibility (I mean people who lived on those times).
I agree. But, alas, I’ll have to look at these things through my own experience anyway so syncretist interpretations it is.
Kenazis wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:26 pm Nature of Valkyries depends much of the view we take on Odin. For they are Odin's "servants". "Demons to some, angels to others". For example if Odin is seen as God, Valkyries can be seen as angels. If Odin is seen as "evil" demiurge, the valkyries are something you don't want to meet. Also Valhalla is seen as hell instead of heaven.
This is interesting. I had some initial thoughts relating to Valkyries when surficially (without proper research) meditating upon them. First related to the feminine attribute of creating the warmth of home, relating to the womb symbolism, and Valkyries being the specific form of femininity which takes you there or alternatively guards it. This womb and ”home” being in this case Valhalla. Perhaps devaloka is approximately the same place in some Hindu traditions. Moreover, I often think of buddhi as a circle, which can be seen as a womb symbol too.

Another thought I had is related to the constant presence of death, and how the struggles of life are often similar to lying on a battlefield in death throes. Perhaps there’s a fire within us which we have managed to take proper care of in the challenges, and through which we are seen worthy by the Valkyries. Valkyries who gallop in the air and perhaps connects our mind with the higher sphere and the Master. Here I see Valkyries as kind of a feminine form of Mercury, something which I personally connect with because of the aforementioned feminine attributes connecting to buddhi, womb and the home.

Now, coming back to that idea of Valkyries being demons to some and angels to others, I think it fits well with the aforementioned guardian aspect. In the light of our different bodies separating in death, we could make a cautious interpretation where this guardian aspect ”slays” the lower bodies and takes only that which belongs to the lofty home, and is thus seen as fierce demon by the lower bodies.

This reveals in a thrilling way how something can be at the same time a Socratean Daemon, but still when appearing to the lower bodies, actually is the Christian demon who problematizes the material state and its perpetual repetitive motion, and in such a prison should be ”unlocked” by finding creativity (a Mercurial virtue) from where it lacks.

Re: Valkyrja

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:18 am
by Polyhymnia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqlFrmzHxs

I took a comparative myth course last term, but we only touched very lightly on the valkyries. The idea of a feminine psychopomp is very powerful to me. That beautiful ourobouros of life to death and back again ad infinitum.

Re: Valkyrja

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 am
by Nebenkheperu
Once again I shall begin my benighted commentary with the (dry) remark "interesting insights above". This is spoken in honesty.
'Valkyrja' etymologically denotes when rendered into modern English "chosen-carrier". The 'val' part is an euphemism for "dead/deceased" - cognate with the Finnish (loan from Old Norse) word 'vaali' = selection/choice/election.

Compare with one of the heiti-words for Óðinn: Valfǫðr or "chosen/slain-father". There's a complex of meanings behind this appellation as well, methinks.

But, what I surmise personally this thread to be about, is rather the "fylgja" = follower. In other terms Higher Self, the Soul, the HGA, Inner Self, Daimon and (dare I utter forbidden words?): in SoA's nomenclature "Azazel". We all probably are familiar & resonate with this concept...it's a person's innermost nature; usually experienced as an entity of the opposite gender to ourselves. Hence all the speech & ado about the Unio Mystica, 0=2, fuck the cosmos and so on. Put in a nutshell "magic is [about] self-healing".

The confusion with the valkyrja may possibly arise from the Eddic, Wagnerian and other divers sources relating to the myth of Sigurðr (="victory-fated"). If we are to trust the sagas, his suspiciously Jungian anima-encounter was indeed with the valkyrja Sigdrifa (="victory-driver") who quite clearly was his feminine half i.e. complement...in accomplishing "the miracle of the one thing", so to speak. In other words, his fylgja was an actual valkyrja, while ours likely is not. We are real humans and not mythical characters. At least not before we make ourselves become such. Sieg heil (=hale)? Yet who can tell the difference, if such indeed exists? 😜

So, the 'fylgja/follower' denotes nothing more or less than our completing (missing) half. In theory and in general magico-mystical parlance this may sound quite abstract, but in practice it's not so AFAIK. Rather it usually seems to be relatively straightforward to get in touch/carnal knowledge of your personal fylgja. And isn't it repeatedly stated in various primers on magic that this accomplishment is the very first that the wannabe-magician should undertake? Id est, crucial to undergo lest you waste your time, power, effort & dangerously delude yourself in the process. Caveat evocator.

Speaking of Óðinn, I myself don't see him/it as representing a demiurge in the Gnostic sense. Rather as a Mercurian deity/archetype of the Absolute if we must use Theosophical concepts. Personally I see Óðinn and the corresponding Mercurial deities of various traditions & cultures (including especially our own Finnic Väinämöinen) as often stand-ins for the concept of the Higher Self. Perhaps bizarrely I would also equate such with the fylgja itself - not that far-fetched if we consider the concept of the psychopomp. The valkyrjar are described as being such and so is Hermēs et al.
The "gods" of various different traditions/cultures seem ultimately genderless to me; at least according to my personal experience & research. Yes, historically (and in art) they have been alluded to as being either feminine or masculine, but this seems to be so because of their main characteristic powers are deemed active/passive = male/female in the traditional sense. Mere basic symbology. How can a deity or other "spiritual" entity even have a mammalian(?) gender, as they are without biology/corporeality?

The comparision of Valhǫll with the womb sounds interesting/fascinating to me. The road to rebirth/-incarnation for the "einherjar" (= "unique warriors") in a way? Could it then be assumed that those dead who instead went to Hel or Niflheimr were the "unprepared souls" aka profane individuals according to Theosophical doctrine? Aren't these separate terms rather describing merely various aspects/stages of the "devachanic" aka post-mortem existence between assumed incarnations? I cannot see why not, as they stem from a common Proto-Indoeuropean source at least linguistically.

I find there to be much food for thought & feeling & intuition in this here thread. To state the obvious the crux of the matter lies on personal testing thereof. The Mystery always remains. ⭕️

Re: Valkyrja

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:48 pm
by Smaragd
The discerning of the names were interesting, thank you for sharing.
Nebenkheperu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 am But, what I surmise personally this thread to be about, is rather the "fylgja" = follower. In other terms Higher Self, the Soul, the HGA, Inner Self, Daimon and (dare I utter forbidden words?): in SoA's nomenclature "Azazel". We all probably are familiar & resonate with this concept...it's a person's innermost nature

So, the 'fylgja/follower' denotes nothing more or less than our completing (missing) half.
Often times when voicing the Prayer to Azazel my mind is in different positions towards the name. Sometimes it questions the demonic name, sometimes it sees the name clearly as a loftier presence, sometimes it finds guidance through it, a proud undertaking of the chosen path or given path, sometimes it sees in it the substantial/elemental/ancestral/unconscious wisdom buried deep down in material vessels etc. This idea of the missing half is good in the sense that it completes the present setup the mind has gotten itself into.
Nebenkheperu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 am Rather it usually seems to be relatively straightforward to get in touch/carnal knowledge of your personal fylgja. And isn't it repeatedly stated in various primers on magic that this accomplishment is the very first that the wannabe-magician should undertake? Id est, crucial to undergo lest you waste your time, power, effort & dangerously delude yourself in the process. Caveat evocator.
Although it can be relatively straightforward thing, at the same time it may seem impossible. There are thousands of ways and it may be problematic to speak of examples because of the dangers of narrowing the ways down too much. But just as an example seeking for a magical name to root in to can be such a fylgja seeking endeavour. Another for me has been the magical sense of childhood. Although my childhood had in it terrible things, it nevertheless had truly fantastic quality behind the not so great conditions, which is impossible to describe wholly, but there was this magical sense of goodness (EDIT: "those golden talismans of luck", strike me as relevant poetic allusion to such memories, when looking at this idea through the Darkthrone lyrics below), which is seen as the innocence of a child from the adult perspective. I would claim this to be an image of the Mercurial Child through which to get in touch with my "fylgja" who is behind all the conditions and experiences. These conditions and experiences easily bending the innermost purity of my being askew if I'm not careful to guard and seek evermore this source of secret knowledge within me.

Nebenkheperu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 amSpeaking of Óðinn, I myself don't see him/it as representing a demiurge in the Gnostic sense. Rather as a Mercurian deity/archetype of the Absolute if we must use Theosophical concepts.
I can see them as both, similarly as I can see the archetypes having a role also as Gnostic Archons keeping the rule of the old world - the Gnostic prison of the world. I am fighting to set myself free from the demonic (in approx. Christian meaning of the word) patterns of repetition in my formal (petrified, incarcerated) bodies, while at the same time I am finding the root of all creativity from the archetypal formless being of the Daemon. Which takes us to:
Nebenkheperu wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:27 am The comparision of Valhǫll with the womb sounds interesting/fascinating to me. The road to rebirth/-incarnation for the "einherjar" (= "unique warriors") in a way? Could it then be assumed that those dead who instead went to Hel or Niflheimr were the "unprepared souls" aka profane individuals according to Theosophical doctrine?
Yes and no. As long as we all have those aforementioned formal bodies of the lower triad, don't we all also have portions which the Valkyries are presumably leaving for Niflheimr? But it is said that the portions in ourselves we give the most attention to our consciousness attaches to it the most, so in this sense the profane consciousness would be attached to the portions that makes them "profane". What is particularly interesting is to ask what happens to the lower instruments of an adept? If these lower instruments are partially working in the fine material world which we may call 'ancestral spirits', does adepts leave particularly well working tools in the ancestral pool to work as a nirmanakaya link to the world and the worthy neophytes?
Polyhymnia wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:18 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqlFrmzHxs
The idea of a feminine psychopomp is very powerful to me. That beautiful ourobouros of life to death and back again ad infinitum.
I love this track. As we talked earlier, one of the high points of Darkthrone eventhough this is not a popular opinion. In my personal interpretation the lyrics portray Valkyries attracting us in almost erotic manner, the brilliance and virtuous superiority of them awaking the lower self to seek its own brilliance and mystery from the virtuous one. Coming back to the earlier mentioned Mercurial Child, the virtue seen in the matured Valkyries can be seen as further manifested brilliance of the Child. And in the luminous presence of the Valkyries there is a mating call for the lower self to rise up to the brilliance of the Valkyries (and above). This could be seen eventually giving birth to the Mercurial Child (or reconnecting with it) in the individual incarnated human being. To clarify further, the Child or Logos is the metaphysical basis in the highest trinity, and it needs to be given birth also in the fully grown human being in order to ascend from creation towards pralaya.
Darkthrone wrote:A brilliant force for land and lover

The hand that reaches out
A glance that clears all doubt
Flowing hair in the fall
That laugh attracts them all

VALKYRIE

Secrets truly walk this earth
Those golden talismans of luck
Senses flair; your hunter's near
Forever head up high my dear